I love the wider conversation this has generated! (Thanks Heitzso for sharing my original post.) I also discovered that on long trips, my mileage went from around 45-48 on the highway to closer to 53 MPG when I just drove the speed limit - it'd probably be even better if I kept it at 55. It makes for a more relaxed drive if I give myself tons of time to go a moderate speed (and stop for breaks for a little hike or lunch). I made my automobile purchase with fuel economy in mind - I drive an 04 Jetta TDI 5-speed, can't afford a Prius! My mechanic friend advised me on this, as electric cars and hybrids need batteries replaced more often, and those are built from materials mined unethically in terms of often using slave/child/unfairly paid labor as well as it being devastating for the environment from where its sourced. 

As for Dance Gypsy (which btw is not a word I use to describe myself), I think the bigger question is, why do we celebrate the people who drive or fly the furthest to get to events all across the country, and indeed the world, without taking into consideration their carbon footprint? I get the joys and benefits of traveling for dance, I do it all the time. But I wonder - how many others feel that it's unsustainable?

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019, 1:32 AM <callers-request@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: [Organizers] contra dance gypsy & fuel consumption
      (Paul Wilde)
   2. Re: [Organizers] contra dance gypsy & fuel consumption
      (Mac Mckeever)
   3. Re: [Organizers] contra dance gypsy (Becky Liddle)
   4. Re: [Organizers] contra dance gypsy (Mac Mckeever)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 14:54:51 -0400
From: Paul Wilde <zenyente@gmail.com>
To: "Heitzso <" <heitzso@growthmodels.com>,
        organizers@lists.sharedweight.net,  callers@lists.sharedweight.net,
        musicians@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] [Organizers] contra dance gypsy & fuel
        consumption
Message-ID:
        <CACyeUsMm8qihAKH3OiCV91xCQv6xcRRR+UPmbxo7g8dH-9bOeg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hey all,

This is a long email, as it includes three posts.

First, I hope people don't mind, but I'm ccing,
callers and musicians list here, as I think
we can collectively bring about a major shift
in habits w/ our concerted hive intelligence.

I am including the original two posts near the top of
this email, so callers/musicians list people can
see where this started.  PLEASE feel free to
cut out the original lengthy posts when replying.

First:

On 10/7/19, Heitzso via Organizers <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I'm a believer that climate change is a real threat.

> I'm also a believer that our culture desperately needs activities
   that bind people together rather than fractures them apart, and
   I believe contra dance is an excellent way to do that.
   (sharing weight, dancing with everyone, ...)

> I've mentioned the issue of how do we change our contra culture
   to minimize our carbon footprint from traveling to non-local contra
   dances to my wife, Jennifer Horrocks, a few times over the years
   (she sews and sells contra dance dresses all over the country).

> Recently Liz Burkhart (on this email's "to" list) posted on Facebook
   about her trying to alter her contra lifestyle to minimize her contra
   carbon footprint.

> Cut-and-pasting from her post:

>> I've spent years with a contra habit that takes me to roughly one
dance weekend per month. The closest, besides our own, was 83 miles
away and the furthest was 795 miles. I am acutely aware that this is an
incredible amount of distance to be covered for just one weekend (sometimes
a week) for a pleasurable activity. It's been weighing on me more and more,
as it's becoming painfully obvious that our lifestyles aren't sustainable. My
lifestyle at home is mostly pretty simple, but I feel this nagging guilt
when I do something extravagant, like drive to Vermont for YDW. Although
we did our best to cram up to 6 people and our stuff in a van, we still
consumed a lot of fuel to make it happen. Some people flew, which consumes
even more.

>> I think I'd like to work on decreasing the amount of out-of-town events
I go to, and try to find alternative ways to get there. Carpools are great
and much better than driving solo, but we could do more. One dancer this
weekend took public transit and a bicycle from DC area to Vermont. A whole
band playing for a square dance weekend a few years ago biked from south
(I think New Orleans?) all the way to Nashville. I think this is really
admirable and more people should consider something like this. This
ongoing climate change makes our world a scary place, and it will only get
worse (it doesn't look like those with the power to fix it care to change
the high consumption status quo). It's also becoming more common for me to
have to drive distances to call contra dances, which is harder to find
carpool mates for. I'm not sure what that will look like for me - I am
fantasizing about a NE train/bike tour with dates far enough apart that I
can make it to gigs with this slower and less convenient transportation.
I'm also considering making a vow to never fly on an airplane again. Their
use is so incredibly terrible for our environment.

>> Has anyone been adapting their travel habits in the face of climate
>> change?

> I believe that we, our contra community, needs to openly start discussing
this issue.
I applaud Liz's public request for comment and solutions.

> Sincerely,
> Heitzso
> http://atgaga.com

Finally, my reply:

Yes, this is a very worthwhile discussion.

On a slightly side note, 2+ yrs ago a hydrogen station was completed
at a local super market parking lot 1 mile from our house.

I tried for 1 yr, writing emails and calling Stop & Shop, Toyota, Honda,
and people from Air Liquide who were the ones responsible for installing
the hydrogen station.  I got absolutely nowhere for all this effort.
I was told repeatedly by everyone I could get to talk to at both
Toyota and Honda (both who make hydrogen powered cars)
that there weren't stations to provide fuel to start selling these
cars anywhere but in CA.  To my knowledge (I live in Prov RI),
there are stations near Hartford CT, Mansfield MA (20 mi. from us),
Newton MA, (40 miles from us and close to Boston), and I'm sure
there are others nearby that I'm not aware of.  Perhaps you know
of others you could add to this?

CA is the only place you can buy these cars (is what I'm told).
Someone mentioned OR.  I called dealers there, and no luck.

SO, my very dissatisfied take on all this was that the industry
(car makers, etc) are doing worse than just dragging their feet
on switching to non-carbon based fuel alternatives.  It pisses
me off no end (esp having a station 1 mile from home).  But
honestly I don't know where to take this from here.

After all this effort, we switched out from a Toyota Echo ('05)
which had been getting just under 40 mpg for over 10 yrs, to
a Prius, now getting 55+mpg overall, but I'm still not happy
about the carbon footprint.
Biking is great, (but I'm afraid our household is a little to
old for that now), and public transportation is also a great
alternative.  However, just for an example, I believe there
is no public transportation that will take you into Concord MA,
where the Scout House is, and where there is dancing at least
10X/mo.  Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

So I'd love to hear from others and apologize for this slightly
lengthy rant, but for one, I would LOVE to see hydrogen become
the rule of the highways.  Their exhaust is water, and being lighter
than air, any leaks would go up, and not spread fire across the landscape,
as gasoline would do, should there be an accident.  Oh, and the
Hindenberg?  All that black smoke and all the fire after the first few
seconds was due to diesel to run the engine and the canvas bag.
Grrr!!!:-)

These lists rock,
Paul


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 19:07:13 +0000 (UTC)
From: Mac Mckeever <macmck@ymail.com>
To: "Heitzso <" <heitzso@growthmodels.com>,
        organizers@lists.sharedweight.net, callers@lists.sharedweight.net,
        musicians@lists.sharedweight.net, Paul Wilde <zenyente@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Callers] [Organizers] contra dance gypsy & fuel
        consumption
Message-ID: <960702987.4902764.1570475233043@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 These are some really important things to consider.? There are easy ways to reduce our carbon footprint without avoiding travel
Carpools are wonderful - more efficient and a great opportunity to bond with other dancers
There are lots of more fuel efficient cars that make a real difference.? Outside out local dances it is starting to look like a Prius dealer's lot - those get near 50 mpg.? All electric or plugable hybrids do even better - but are relatively new and expensive right now.? Trains and buses take a little planning but better for the environment..
only slightly related question:? Why is it offensive to call a dance figure a gypsy but not offensive to be a dance gypsy?
Mac McKeever
    On Monday, October 7, 2019, 01:55:01 PM CDT, Paul Wilde via Organizers <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: 

 Hey all,

This is a long email, as it includes three posts.

First, I hope people don't mind, but I'm ccing,
callers and musicians list here, as I think
we can collectively bring about a major shift
in habits w/ our concerted hive intelligence.

I am including the original two posts near the top of
this email, so callers/musicians list people can
see where this started.? PLEASE feel free to
cut out the original lengthy posts when replying.

First:

On 10/7/19, Heitzso via Organizers <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I'm a believer that climate change is a real threat.

> I'm also a believer that our culture desperately needs activities
? that bind people together rather than fractures them apart, and
? I believe contra dance is an excellent way to do that.
? (sharing weight, dancing with everyone, ...)

> I've mentioned the issue of how do we change our contra culture
? to minimize our carbon footprint from traveling to non-local contra
? dances to my wife, Jennifer Horrocks, a few times over the years
? (she sews and sells contra dance dresses all over the country).

> Recently Liz Burkhart (on this email's "to" list) posted on Facebook
? about her trying to alter her contra lifestyle to minimize her contra
? carbon footprint.

> Cut-and-pasting from her post:

>> I've spent years with a contra habit that takes me to roughly one
dance weekend per month. The closest, besides our own, was 83 miles
away and the furthest was 795 miles. I am acutely aware that this is an
incredible amount of distance to be covered for just one weekend (sometimes
a week) for a pleasurable activity. It's been weighing on me more and more,
as it's becoming painfully obvious that our lifestyles aren't sustainable. My
lifestyle at home is mostly pretty simple, but I feel this nagging guilt
when I do something extravagant, like drive to Vermont for YDW. Although
we did our best to cram up to 6 people and our stuff in a van, we still
consumed a lot of fuel to make it happen. Some people flew, which consumes
even more.

>> I think I'd like to work on decreasing the amount of out-of-town events
I go to, and try to find alternative ways to get there. Carpools are great
and much better than driving solo, but we could do more. One dancer this
weekend took public transit and a bicycle from DC area to Vermont. A whole
band playing for a square dance weekend a few years ago biked from south
(I think New Orleans?) all the way to Nashville. I think this is really
admirable and more people should consider something like this. This
ongoing climate change makes our world a scary place, and it will only get
worse (it doesn't look like those with the power to fix it care to change
the high consumption status quo). It's also becoming more common for me to
have to drive distances to call contra dances, which is harder to find
carpool mates for. I'm not sure what that will look like for me - I am
fantasizing about a NE train/bike tour with dates far enough apart that I
can make it to gigs with this slower and less convenient transportation.
I'm also considering making a vow to never fly on an airplane again. Their
use is so incredibly terrible for our environment.

>> Has anyone been adapting their travel habits in the face of climate
>> change?

> I believe that we, our contra community, needs to openly start discussing
this issue.
I applaud Liz's public request for comment and solutions.

> Sincerely,
> Heitzso
> http://atgaga.com

Finally, my reply:

Yes, this is a very worthwhile discussion.

On a slightly side note, 2+ yrs ago a hydrogen station was completed
at a local super market parking lot 1 mile from our house.

I tried for 1 yr, writing emails and calling Stop & Shop, Toyota, Honda,
and people from Air Liquide who were the ones responsible for installing
the hydrogen station.? I got absolutely nowhere for all this effort.
I was told repeatedly by everyone I could get to talk to at both
Toyota and Honda (both who make hydrogen powered cars)
that there weren't stations to provide fuel to start selling these
cars anywhere but in CA.? To my knowledge (I live in Prov RI),
there are stations near Hartford CT, Mansfield MA (20 mi. from us),
Newton MA, (40 miles from us and close to Boston), and I'm sure
there are others nearby that I'm not aware of.? Perhaps you know
of others you could add to this?

CA is the only place you can buy these cars (is what I'm told).
Someone mentioned OR.? I called dealers there, and no luck.

SO, my very dissatisfied take on all this was that the industry
(car makers, etc) are doing worse than just dragging their feet
on switching to non-carbon based fuel alternatives.? It pisses
me off no end (esp having a station 1 mile from home).? But
honestly I don't know where to take this from here.

After all this effort, we switched out from a Toyota Echo ('05)
which had been getting just under 40 mpg for over 10 yrs, to
a Prius, now getting 55+mpg overall, but I'm still not happy
about the carbon footprint.
Biking is great, (but I'm afraid our household is a little to
old for that now), and public transportation is also a great
alternative.? However, just for an example, I believe there
is no public transportation that will take you into Concord MA,
where the Scout House is, and where there is dancing at least
10X/mo.? Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

So I'd love to hear from others and apologize for this slightly
lengthy rant, but for one, I would LOVE to see hydrogen become
the rule of the highways.? Their exhaust is water, and being lighter
than air, any leaks would go up, and not spread fire across the landscape,
as gasoline would do, should there be an accident.? Oh, and the
Hindenberg?? All that black smoke and all the fire after the first few
seconds was due to diesel to run the engine and the canvas bag.
Grrr!!!:-)

These lists rock,
Paul
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net

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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 15:19:12 -0400
From: Becky Liddle <beckyliddle@bell.net>
To: Mac Mckeever <macmck@ymail.com>
Cc: "Heitzso <" <heitzso@growthmodels.com>,
        organizers@lists.sharedweight.net, callers@lists.sharedweight.net,
        musicians@lists.sharedweight.net, Paul Wilde <zenyente@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Callers] [Organizers] contra dance gypsy
Message-ID: <95AEA65C-DA9C-495D-9E66-3EA1EB5FD69A@bell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

We should avoid the term ?gypsy? in all ways, in my opinion, not just as an official dance call. In some areas of the world it is a racial slur akin to the N word. It has been reclaimed by some Roma in the same way some lesbians have reclaimed ?dyke? but when a term is reclaimed, it can still only be used by a member of the group. I can call myself a dyke but you cannot, and a black person can use the N word but I, as a white person, cannot. Since we are not all Roma we need to avoid the term gypsy in the same ways we would avoid other racial/ethnic/other slurs. I miss the term, myself. There was a flirty quality to ?gypsy? that ?right shoulder round? simply cannot connote. But if there were a traditional term that used ?dyke? in it, I would object, and I need to show the same respect to other groups. So when I call this weekend, it will be ?right shoulder round?, tho in the walk-thru I?ll also say something like, ?don?t forget to make a little joking-pretend-flirty eye contact as yo
 u go around! That?s the fun of it!?
Becky

> On Oct 7, 2019, at 3:07 PM, Mac Mckeever via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> only slightly related question:  Why is it offensive to call a dance figure a gypsy but not offensive to be a dance gypsy?
>
> Mac McKeever
>

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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 19:52:33 +0000 (UTC)
From: Mac Mckeever <macmck@ymail.com>
To: Masha Goodman Crawford <mashagoodman@yahoo.com>
Cc: organizers@lists.sharedweight.net, callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] [Organizers] contra dance gypsy
Message-ID: <1205155183.4888150.1570477953548@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 Sorry - I did not mean to hijack this thread with discussion of gypsies - just found it curious that the term 'dance gypsy' was used in the subject line.? I have not heard of anyone addressing that usage.? Please return to the original discussion
Mac
    On Monday, October 7, 2019, 02:46:21 PM CDT, Masha Goodman Crawford <mashagoodman@yahoo.com> wrote: 

  Becky - Excellent answer.
The first time I heard the term "gypsy" for the dance move, I happened to be living among Roma in Europe and was back in the states on a short visit.The part that seemed particularly offensive to me was that the move was taught with the emphasis on gazing flirtatiously into the other dancer's eyes - something that would have been absolutely taboo among the people I had been travelling with. I suppose the name came from someone's mental image of a Flamenco dancer circling, and some idea that Gypsy = Flamenco? who knows. I discovered, much to my dismay, that many of my well-educated American friends thought "Gypsies" were just a fictional group or general term for folks who travel, hence the "dance gypsy" slang. They are a proud and very real ethnic group with a centuries-old language, customs, and a long history of being marginalized and persecuted.In your mind, take any other group with a similar history, and substitute it: Would you teach dancers to do a "Xxx", and tell them that it
  means to behave a certain way with strangers?? (Becky gave one good example, I can think of others as well.)Can we just DROP the term "gypsy" altogether, please?- Masha(dancing and calling since 1978)
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