[Musicians] Dance musicians - a question about 'sit ins'

Fri Apr 10 06:50:57 PDT 2015

Thanks for bringing up musician initiated guests; I was thinking more about
organizer initiated ones. Playing with the Free Raisins if there's a
musician we've played with a lot, individually or as a group, we're often
up for having them on stage on mic. But (a) this is about having fun,
making the music better, and making it more fun to dance to instead of
building local capacity and (b) the list of musicians we're this
comfortable with is pretty short.

And you're right that my description of which bands are likely to work well
with sit ins isn't very good. Pretty much need to ask, and with care to
distinguish a yes that means "we like doing this sort of thing" from "we
feel like you're requiring us to".

One thing I'm looking forward to doing in a few months is leading and
anchoring an open band as the Free Raisins. This isn't something we've done
before, but I think there's a lot of potential.
On Apr 10, 2015 9:40 AM, "Dave Casserly via Musicians" <
musicians at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I've sat in with several touring bands in my area, though it hasn't been
> anything officially sanctioned by dance organizers.  So I'll answer from
> personal experience rather than from general knowledge of having tried
> different ways of working it:
>
> 1. What worked or didn't work for you?
>
> The better I know a band and its sound, the better I fit in when I ask or
> am asked to sit in.  What's worked for me so far is either asking or just
> being invited, usually when it's a band I know well who's touring in the
> area.  I think it takes some subtlety to know when it's appropriate to ask,
> either as an organizer trying to facilitate sit-ins or a musician trying to
> make it happen in your area.  I don't actually know how to explain which
> bands are better for sit-ins; I agree with Jeff that pick-up bands would
> theoretically work well, but in my experience, the bands I'm likely to be
> asked to sit in with don't have notably less tight arrangements than other
> bands (Great Bear Trio, Giant Robot Dance, and the Free Raisins all have
> very tight arrangements but yet welcome sit-ins at times; on the other
> hand, the Latter Day Lizards have extremely loose arrangements, but I've
> never heard of anybody sitting in with them).
>
> 2. How would you ideally like it structured? Off mic only or on mic
> depending on the person? Would you want a max number of people on stage and
> if so what? Would you be open to a 'sit in' at any time or only on a few
> designated sets? Other thoughts?
>
> On mic depending on the person.  Off-mic only, you might as well play with
> recordings.  Which can be fun, but isn't really a great way to grow local
> musicians who already know how to play for dances and are looking to take
> their skills to the next level.  Max people on stage, yes, maybe two
> sit-ins on mic (others playing quietly behind, where the main musicians
> don't hear them much, don't count).  I think, for touring bands, a few
> designated sets makes a lot more sense than trying to accommodate a sit-in
> for the entire time.  Bands know their own music and know what sets are
> appropriate for others to quickly jump in.
>
> 3. And how would you like to be approached by the organizers? This would
> definitely be a choice thing... not forced!!!  I'm thinking more on how it
> could be thoughtfully presented and facilitated.
>
> If I were touring, I'd want an organizer to first explain that they're
> trying to grow their local musician communities, ask if I'd like to have a
> sit-in musician play with us for a set or two, and offer to put me in touch
> with the person who would be sitting in.  Ideally, this person would be
> somebody I already know or at least have heard play before.  What I
> wouldn't want is for an organizer to ask for too much-- either in terms of
> the musician's inexperience or inability, or the number of musicians, or
> the number of sets.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 7:16 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Musicians <
> musicians at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> (Cross posting my reply to the callers list.)
>>
>> It depends on what your goals are. If you want to give the dancers there
>> that night the best music you can give them that usually means letting your
>> touring band play on their own. Most bands have their own tunes,
>> arrangements, and style, and when fitting in extra musicians that's often
>> hard to communicate and organize in the time available. Especially if this
>> is a band known for having a tight sound, you're going to lose that when
>> you add more people.
>>
>> But this may be worth it if your main goal is building local capacity.
>> Yes, the music that night won't be as good, but if you can make up for that
>> when the local musicians who sat in are playing on their own it's good on
>> balance. If you go this route it's important that the sit ins are there
>> because they want to learn and not just because it would be fun to play
>> with the visiting musicians, or else you're not really being fair to the
>> dancers.
>>
>> (You do still want to check with the band, because the amount the band's
>> sounds will change when they incorporate new musicians is variable. At one
>> extreme you have groups like Perpetual eMotion, at the other you have
>> groups of individually excellent musicians who have more of a pickup band
>> style among themselves. The more pickupish a band is the better they'll be
>> able to integrate new musicians, and the way to find out is to ask them
>> what they'd think.)
>>
>> (The above is all talking about sit ins who are included in the overall
>> sound and that the band is trying to coordinate with. It's also possible to
>> allow sit ins to sit well behind the band off mic while the band plays
>> whatever they normally would. This is what BIDA does, though people only
>> rarely show up. Some musicians find it annoying to have people noodling
>> along behind them, others don't care.)
>> On Apr 9, 2015 10:46 PM, "Emily Addison via Musicians" <
>> musicians at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi dance musicians :)
>>>
>>> I lamented watching some amazing conversations happening last month
>>> about open & community bands ... I'm hoping to chime-in much belatedly with
>>> Ottawa's experience. But first, I have a different question all together
>>> for the group!
>>>
>>> Way up here in Ottawa, it's hard for our local dance musicians to get
>>> much experience playing dance music with anyone other than other local
>>> musicians.
>>>
>>> Thus the question: Have any of you had local musicians 'sit in' when
>>> you've  played as the hired band? This idea came up at Puttin' On The Dance
>>> 2 and we have a few keen musicians who would like to do this as part of
>>> their strategy for improving their chops. I've since talked to two touring
>>> musicians who are very open to this and think that some other bands may
>>> also be open.  However, I anticipate that other bands may not be open.
>>>
>>> So, if you have experienced something like this...
>>>
>>> 1. What worked or didn't work for you?
>>>
>>> 2. How would you ideally like it structured? Off mic only or on mic
>>> depending on the person? Would you want a max number of people on stage and
>>> if so what? Would you be open to a 'sit in' at any time or only on a few
>>> designated sets? Other thoughts?
>>>
>>> 3. And how would you like to be approached by the organizers? This would
>>> definitely be a choice thing... not forced!!!  I'm thinking more on how it
>>> could be thoughtfully presented and facilitated.
>>>
>>> Re sit ins... I'm talking about musicians who already have some dance
>>> experience (not random musicians).
>>>
>>> With thanks!
>>> Emily in Ottawa
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Musicians at lists.sharedweight.net
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>>>
>>>
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>
>
> --
> David Casserly
> (cell) 781 258-2761
>
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