<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><body>
And if you think about it, when done with thought it is less likely to to twist or grab or bend. I also am a MWSD and when I forget and do the armhold some told me they preferred it when I apologized for mismanaging. <div><br></div><div>At dances, it really depends on the club. And convention. I have two clubs locally. Neigher care about attire. But. For a dance - once club does wear club clothes, but not required. The other is come as you feel. Conventions and fly-ins are also club or national orientation. Locally conventions firmly state - convention attire after 6. Or long sleved shirts required. I don’t think anyone has actually been kicked out but- you may be the solo attire freak.</div><div><br></div><div>I may be stepping in without following the entire thread. </div><div><br></div><div>Take what you need - forget the rest...</div><div><br></div><div>Laurie</div><div><br></div><div><br><br><br><a href="https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad</a><br><br><p class="yahoo-quoted-begin" style="font-size: 15px; color: #715FFA; padding-top: 15px; margin-top: 0">On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 4:59 PM, Andrea Nettleton via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:</p><blockquote class="iosymail"><div dir="ltr">Stephen, <br></div><div dir="ltr">I assure you that at Hotlanta, DC Lambda, and the conventions I've attended, people are not in traditional garb, but in shorts and T-shirts, just like in contra. And you bet we sweat. It has not impacted the use of the hold. <br></div><div dir="ltr">Andrea<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> On May 21, 2019, at 4:38 PM, Stephen via Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> The forearm turn works well in MWSD because men wear long-sleeved shirts. Don’t know about you, but with short sleeved Ts typically worn by men in contra dancing, I’d hate to get a load of sweat on my arm , especially up and down the line with the all-too-frequent gents (or larks) allemand left once and a half.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> Sent from my iPhone<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> On May 21, 2019, at 4:07 PM, <a ymailto="mailto:callers-request@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers-request@lists.sharedweight.net">callers-request@lists.sharedweight.net</a> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Send Callers mailing list submissions to<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a ymailto="mailto:callers-request@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers-request@lists.sharedweight.net">callers-request@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a ymailto="mailto:callers-owner@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers-owner@lists.sharedweight.net">callers-owner@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..."<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Today's Topics:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> 1. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Richard Fischer)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> 2. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Rich Sbardella)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> 3. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Don Veino)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> 4. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Rich Sbardella)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> 5. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Erik Hoffman)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> 6. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Andrea Nettleton)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> 7. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (John Sweeney)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> 8. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Folk Dance)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> 9. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (John Sweeney)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> 10. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (Andrea Nettleton)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> 11. Re: Hand Turns & Safety (John Sweeney)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message: 1<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 18:58:41 -0400<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: Richard Fischer <<a ymailto="mailto:richardallenfischer@verizon.net" href="mailto:richardallenfischer@verizon.net">richardallenfischer@verizon.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To: Andrea Nettleton <<a ymailto="mailto:twirly-girl@bellsouth.net" href="mailto:twirly-girl@bellsouth.net">twirly-girl@bellsouth.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Cc: Caller's discussion list <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:52479A7C-5587-493A-8B69-F85F8519BE71@verizon.net" href="mailto:52479A7C-5587-493A-8B69-F85F8519BE71@verizon.net">52479A7C-5587-493A-8B69-F85F8519BE71@verizon.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Andrea, could you describe the forearm allemande? I don't think I've seen it and can't quite picture it. Or maybe send a link to a video that shows it?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Of possible interest to some, one of the scenes portrayed on the Shield of Achilles in the Iliad shows youths and maidens dancing, "holding their hands on one another's wrists."<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> With best wishes,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Richard Fischer<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Princeton, NJ<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> On May 18, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Andrea Nettleton via Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Hi all,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I?m going to add a controversial note. I also loathe the many poor allemandes I get, unweighted, awkward handed, arm pulled in like a chicken wing, what have you. As a MWSD, I have come to love the forearm allemande for arm turns. Callerlab made the switch some years ago, and at first I was like, wut??? But it?s a position which save everyone?s hands and wrists, and even shoulders, is intrinsically very stable, and makes the chicken wing almost impossible. I started using it for dances with revolving doors, as a dancer, because those turns are so brief and necessarily tight and need a quick strong connection. I was so pleased I began using them elsewhere. People generally go along with it. I have been wishing Contra could just switch to this for all allemandes. I know it would be an uphill struggle to get everyone on board. But I had to put it out there.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Currently I still teach an old fashioned allemande. I demonstrate and emphasize meaty parts of the thumb together, fingers curled around the base of the opposite?s thumb, flat wrist. And I always add that the thumb itself is an injurious device which lands at a tender spot if depressed, so leave it loose. Then I demonstrate how to produce enough connection to make a 2 person unit that turns on a post. I?m sure everyone on this list has similar teaches. <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> If teaching this allemande was ever going to work, it would have by now. I suspect it?s failure as a hold is why callerlab opted for the forearm hold instead.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> My 2c,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Andrea N<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Arlington VA<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Sent from my iPhone<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> On May 17, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> John Sweeny below hoped we callers would teach more about hand turns and the like.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> I?ve been thinking on this for quite a while. Years ago I had a discussion with Brad Foster. We both lamented the loss of the allemande with mildly interlocking thumbs to the modern overprotective thumb against the side of the palm allemande. At that time I think I was still in Santa Barbara, thus it must have been pre 1994. I wrote an article for our dance rag called, ?If Allemande Left, Where?d Allemande Go??<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> I talked about what I do when someone grips my hand?and I think all of us should remove that word, ?grip? from our caller?s vocabulary?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> But the most important thing I discussed is:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Our Wrist is Strongest When It?s Straight<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Our Fingers are Strongest When Curved<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Thus, however one does an allemande, it should be a hook, with curved fingers and a straight wrist.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Lately I?ve seen teachers promote the straight fingers, bent wrist, and flat palm method. The almost always makes one person?s wrist uncomfortable. Not as bad as when someone draws the others hand into that almost-Aikido-put-them-on-the-ground position, but usually quite uncomfortable.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Thus I hope most of us learn the curved fingers, straight wrist, no grip, and, no thumb clamping allemande, ECD hand turn, two hand turn type hand connections.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> ~Erik Hoffman,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Oakland, CA<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> From: Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net">callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net">callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net</a>>> On Behalf Of John Sweeney via Callers<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 2:09 PM<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> To: 'Caller's discussion list' <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Name that Dance<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Hi Rich,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> I would just call it a ?Big Set Mixer?. It is a slight variation of the one in the Community Dances Manual. Callers just make up a 32 bar sequence that works for their dancers.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> While it is a good example of all ages having fun together, I really wish callers would teach the dancers just a tiny bit about how to do better hand/arm turns and swings :-)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Happy dancing, <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> John <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England <a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a>> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <a href="http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html " target="_blank">http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html </a><<a href="http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html" target="_blank">http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html</a>> for Live Music Ceilidhs <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <a href="http://www.contrafusion.co.uk " target="_blank">http://www.contrafusion.co.uk </a><<a href="http://www.contrafusion.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.contrafusion.co.uk/</a>> for Dancing in Kent <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <a href="http://www.modernjive.com " target="_blank">http://www.modernjive.com </a><<a href="http://www.modernjive.com/" target="_blank">http://www.modernjive.com/</a>> for Modern Jive DVDs<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ " target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ </a><<a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ " target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ </a><<a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> URL: <<a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190520/b4cce673/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190520/b4cce673/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message: 2<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 19:22:08 -0400<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: Rich Sbardella <<a ymailto="mailto:richsbardella@gmail.com" href="mailto:richsbardella@gmail.com">richsbardella@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To: Richard Fischer <<a ymailto="mailto:richardallenfischer@verizon.net" href="mailto:richardallenfischer@verizon.net">richardallenfischer@verizon.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Cc: Andrea Nettleton <<a ymailto="mailto:twirly-girl@bellsouth.net" href="mailto:twirly-girl@bellsouth.net">twirly-girl@bellsouth.net</a>>, "Caller's<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> discussion list" <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <CAE4Buj+QHsNHa=<a ymailto="mailto:0DBSOfnDwWQ2MtVz5a5XT7cY59k5R22zoQaQ@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:0DBSOfnDwWQ2MtVz5a5XT7cY59k5R22zoQaQ@mail.gmail.com">0DBSOfnDwWQ2MtVz5a5XT7cY59k5R22zoQaQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Here is a link with a square dance using the forearm allemande at 30<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> seconds in. As a dancer and caller in both worlds, I prefer the contra<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> allemande over the forearm allemande. It is easier ti give weight and I<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> would suspect it is faster going 1-1/2.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Y-NdyZtKM" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Y-NdyZtKM</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 6:58 PM Richard Fischer via Callers <<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Andrea, could you describe the forearm allemande? I don't think I've seen<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> it and can't quite picture it. Or maybe send a link to a video that shows<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> it?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Of possible interest to some, one of the scenes portrayed on the Shield of<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Achilles in the Iliad shows youths and maidens dancing, "holding their<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> hands on one another's wrists."<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> With best wishes,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Richard Fischer<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Princeton, NJ<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> On May 18, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Andrea Nettleton via Callers <<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Hi all,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I?m going to add a controversial note. I also loathe the many poor<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> allemandes I get, unweighted, awkward handed, arm pulled in like a chicken<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> wing, what have you. As a MWSD, I have come to love the forearm allemande<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> for arm turns. Callerlab made the switch some years ago, and at first I<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> was like, wut??? But it?s a position which save everyone?s hands and<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> wrists, and even shoulders, is intrinsically very stable, and makes the<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> chicken wing almost impossible. I started using it for dances with<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> revolving doors, as a dancer, because those turns are so brief and<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> necessarily tight and need a quick strong connection. I was so pleased I<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> began using them elsewhere. People generally go along with it. I have<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> been wishing Contra could just switch to this for all allemandes. I know<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> it would be an uphill struggle to get everyone on board. But I had to put<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> it out there.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Currently I still teach an old fashioned allemande. I demonstrate and<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> emphasize meaty parts of the thumb together, fingers curled around the base<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> of the opposite?s thumb, flat wrist. And I always add that the thumb<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> itself is an injurious device which lands at a tender spot if depressed, so<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> leave it loose. Then I demonstrate how to produce enough connection to<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> make a 2 person unit that turns on a post. I?m sure everyone on this list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> has similar teaches.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> If teaching this allemande was ever going to work, it would have by now.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I suspect it?s failure as a hold is why callerlab opted for the forearm<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> hold instead.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> My 2c,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Andrea N<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Arlington VA<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Sent from my iPhone<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> On May 17, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers <<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> John Sweeny below hoped we callers would teach more about hand turns and<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> the like.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I?ve been thinking on this for quite a while. Years ago I had a discussion<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> with Brad Foster. We both lamented the loss of the allemande with mildly<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> interlocking thumbs to the modern overprotective thumb against the side of<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> the palm allemande. At that time I think I was still in Santa Barbara, thus<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> it must have been pre 1994. I wrote an article for our dance rag called,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> ?If Allemande Left, Where?d Allemande Go??<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I talked about what I do when someone grips my hand?and I think all of us<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> should remove that word, ?grip? from our caller?s vocabulary?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> But the most important thing I discussed is:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> - Our Wrist is Strongest When It?s Straight<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> - Our Fingers are Strongest When Curved<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> - Thus, however one does an allemande, it should be a hook, with<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> curved fingers and a straight wrist.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Lately I?ve seen teachers promote the straight fingers, bent wrist, and<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> flat palm method. The almost always makes one person?s wrist uncomfortable.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Not as bad as when someone draws the others hand into that<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> almost-Aikido-put-them-on-the-ground position, but usually quite<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> uncomfortable.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Thus I hope most of us learn the curved fingers, straight wrist, no grip,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> and, no thumb clamping allemande, ECD hand turn, two hand turn type hand<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> connections.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> ~Erik Hoffman,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Oakland, CA<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> *From:* Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net">callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> *On Behalf Of *John<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Sweeney via Callers<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2019 2:09 PM<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> *To:* 'Caller's discussion list' <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Name that Dance<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Hi Rich,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I would just call it a ?Big Set Mixer?. It is a slight<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> variation of the one in the Community Dances Manual. Callers just make up<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> a 32 bar sequence that works for their dancers.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> While it is a good example of all ages having fun together,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I really wish callers would teach the dancers just a tiny bit about how to<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> do better hand/arm turns and swings :-)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Happy dancing,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> John<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England <a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a> 01233 625 362 & 07802<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> 940 574<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html " target="_blank">http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html </a>for Live Music<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Ceilidhs<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://www.contrafusion.co.uk " target="_blank">http://www.contrafusion.co.uk </a>for Dancing in Kent<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://www.modernjive.com " target="_blank">http://www.modernjive.com </a>for Modern Jive DVDs<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> URL: <<a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190520/a1138121/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190520/a1138121/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message: 3<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 20:19:15 -0400<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: Don Veino <<a ymailto="mailto:sharedweight_net@veino.com" href="mailto:sharedweight_net@veino.com">sharedweight_net@veino.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To: "Caller's discussion list" <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <CAAJTtiKj-hoo6kwzQb0k9=nAkcHvZRn5__buTVTigYPj+<a ymailto="mailto:SR3Jw@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:SR3Jw@mail.gmail.com">SR3Jw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Not to mention a lot less sweaty skin contact!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> URL: <<a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190520/0ece7f6a/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190520/0ece7f6a/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message: 4<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 20:33:51 -0400<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: Rich Sbardella <<a ymailto="mailto:richsbardella@gmail.com" href="mailto:richsbardella@gmail.com">richsbardella@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To: Don Veino <<a ymailto="mailto:sharedweight_net@veino.com" href="mailto:sharedweight_net@veino.com">sharedweight_net@veino.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Cc: "Caller's discussion list" <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <<a ymailto="mailto:CAE4BujKbq_UqTt-kT2qr6Wg9eZfiohAFf30TPeJvujkChbt1hw@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:CAE4BujKbq_UqTt-kT2qr6Wg9eZfiohAFf30TPeJvujkChbt1hw@mail.gmail.com">CAE4BujKbq_UqTt-kT2qr6Wg9eZfiohAFf30TPeJvujkChbt1hw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Don,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> That is why Gents wear long sleeves all year in MWSD.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> No skin too skin.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Rich<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 8:19 PM Don Veino via Callers <<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Not to mention a lot less sweaty skin contact!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> URL: <<a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190520/075bbf2f/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190520/075bbf2f/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message: 5<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 05:50:44 +0000<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: Erik Hoffman <<a ymailto="mailto:erik@erikhoffman.com" href="mailto:erik@erikhoffman.com">erik@erikhoffman.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To: Rich Sbardella <<a ymailto="mailto:richsbardella@gmail.com" href="mailto:richsbardella@gmail.com">richsbardella@gmail.com</a>>, Don Veino<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <<a ymailto="mailto:sharedweight_net@veino.com" href="mailto:sharedweight_net@veino.com">sharedweight_net@veino.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Cc: Caller's discussion list <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <<a ymailto="mailto:BYAPR11MB3304BDAA2C8FE73E4DB39EBED0070@BYAPR11MB3304.namprd11.prod.outlook.com" href="mailto:BYAPR11MB3304BDAA2C8FE73E4DB39EBED0070@BYAPR11MB3304.namprd11.prod.outlook.com">BYAPR11MB3304BDAA2C8FE73E4DB39EBED0070@BYAPR11MB3304.namprd11.prod.outlook.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Yes, sweaty men?s arms? IckQ! Sweaty women?s arms? Glowing!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net">callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> On Behalf Of Rich Sbardella via Callers<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 5:34 PM<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To: Don Veino <<a ymailto="mailto:sharedweight_net@veino.com" href="mailto:sharedweight_net@veino.com">sharedweight_net@veino.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Cc: Caller's discussion list <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Don,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> That is why Gents wear long sleeves all year in MWSD.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> No skin too skin.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Rich<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 8:19 PM Don Veino via Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Not to mention a lot less sweaty skin contact!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> URL: <<a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/15a8af89/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/15a8af89/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message: 6<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 04:28:55 -0400<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: Andrea Nettleton <<a ymailto="mailto:twirly-girl@bellsouth.net" href="mailto:twirly-girl@bellsouth.net">twirly-girl@bellsouth.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To: Erik Hoffman <<a ymailto="mailto:erik@erikhoffman.com" href="mailto:erik@erikhoffman.com">erik@erikhoffman.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Cc: Rich Sbardella <<a ymailto="mailto:richsbardella@gmail.com" href="mailto:richsbardella@gmail.com">richsbardella@gmail.com</a>>, Don Veino<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <<a ymailto="mailto:sharedweight_net@veino.com" href="mailto:sharedweight_net@veino.com">sharedweight_net@veino.com</a>>, Caller's discussion list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:40A1CAFE-3DF7-4D44-B7AF-2A3BEB67DAB4@bellsouth.net" href="mailto:40A1CAFE-3DF7-4D44-B7AF-2A3BEB67DAB4@bellsouth.net">40A1CAFE-3DF7-4D44-B7AF-2A3BEB67DAB4@bellsouth.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Hi all,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I think that particular video is a poor example of what forearm turns can be. I can?t deny the potential for sweat, but, confession, my hands sweat like crazy anyway, and I seem to collect plenty of other people?s sweat in swings and courtesy turns, as it is. <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I disagree about weight. The difference is that the connection puts less stress on joints and therefore feels lighter, but is, in fact, tighter. At contra dances, doing a traditional allemande, where according to Rich we should find it easy to give weight, instead there?s a panoply of styles of mangling hands wrists and shoulders, flexing or flopping elbows, which result in all too few actually satisfying and well weighted allemandes, regardless of role danced. If it were easy for that allemande to be well executed and well weighted, wouldn?t it more generally be so? Wouldn?t there be fewer defensive variants? <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> The forearm turn is almost impossible to mess up, with fewer joints involved, and even when less weight is applied, is firm and close enough to result in timely movement. Whatever else can be said about it, it does not permit wide spacing between bodies, and people do automatically bend their elbows to something like the appropriate angle. There only being one angle to adjust makes it easier to fine tune, in my opinion.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Richard Fisher requested, I think, a description. To be as accurate as possible I asked my partner, who, like me, has been a long time contra and English dancer, as well as a MWSD dancer. (I have always danced at gay clubs, which, I understand may be zestier than average?, and he is a MIT Tech squares alum, which, being a college club, may also dance with higher energy than the club in the video) to simply give me a MWSD forearm as if we were about to, for example, swing thru. He gave me what I expected, and what I consider good form: full hand and fingers solidly on the meaty inside of my forearm, which let me do the same, forming a flat wristed, full hand through forearm connection for both of us. Instead of a W, you get more like a \__/ look. The outsides of the fingers are to a wall, the insides pushing at the forearm, like we pressure the hand in a traditional hold. It feels more like the whole arm is involved to me, less muscle action needed, only enough to maintain the ar<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> m position. We varied in how we held our digits, I had mine more open, he kept his flat, either way it functions like a mitt. Both of us used our palms to make the primary connection, fingers lighter. As in any allemande, the elbow and shoulder firm up to complete the connection. It can be very zippy indeed! <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I?m still searching for a clear example in video form. I?ll let you all know if I find one from sources I have access to.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> FWIW, I am exhausted from the last few years of the community arguing about words and terms. So I?m leery of us picking yet another thing to get exercised over. If anyone truly gets near perfect results from their teach of a trad allemande, I will adopt their words on the spot. Otherwise I?ll continue to see the leas than desirable quality of allemandes experienced as a pitfall of the hold itself combined with the usual humans being human, each with individual understandings, abilities, etc leading to highly variable execution, rather than a consequence of sub par teaching.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Peace everyone.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Andrea<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Sent from my iPhone<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> On May 21, 2019, at 1:50 AM, Erik Hoffman via Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Yes, sweaty men?s arms? IckQ! Sweaty women?s arms? Glowing!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> From: Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net">callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> On Behalf Of Rich Sbardella via Callers<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 5:34 PM<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> To: Don Veino <<a ymailto="mailto:sharedweight_net@veino.com" href="mailto:sharedweight_net@veino.com">sharedweight_net@veino.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Cc: Caller's discussion list <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Don, <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> That is why Gents wear long sleeves all year in MWSD.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> No skin too skin.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Rich<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 8:19 PM Don Veino via Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Not to mention a lot less sweaty skin contact!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> URL: <<a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/3dfde8da/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/3dfde8da/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message: 7<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 10:19:19 +0100<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: "John Sweeney" <<a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To: "'Caller's discussion list'" <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message-ID: <002b01d50fb6$45358ea0$cfa0abe0$@modernjive.com><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Hmm? I seem to have stirred up a hornet?s nest! It is great to see discussion on this important topic.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> There are two very different forearm holds.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> *** In front of the elbow ***:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> This is the MWSD version. Callerlab defines it as:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ?Forearm: The arms are held past the wrist but not past the elbow joint. Each dancer places the hand on the inside of the arm of the person with whom he is to work. The fingers and thumb are held in close. The center of the turn will be at the joined arms, so, while turning, each dancer is moving equally around the other.?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I think this is what Andrea is describing (my apologies if I am wrong).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I don?t like this one. Sorry.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> The connection is not as good as it could be.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Good connection can often only be achieved by gripping the other person?s arm.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> It provides the opportunity to grip hard.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I often find that, due to different arm lengths, the gap between by thumb and index finger is pressed against the inside of the other person?s upper arm. This can be uncomfortable.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> The one I do like is:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> *** Behind the elbow ***:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Put your thumb beside your fingers. Curve your hand. Place your forearms together. Place your curved hand behind your partner?s forearm, just above the elbow. Get close enough so that your upper arm is vertical.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> This is a great connection.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> There is no need to grip.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> You are close together so that you can turn really well.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> It is very effective for 1.5 turns.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Thumbs are not involved so the chance of gripping is greatly reduced.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> It can be achieved instantaneously.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> There is little opportunity to mess it up.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> You can see it being used in this video: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wncJcFPVo" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wncJcFPVo</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> There is a good example 5 seconds in - look at the second couple on the right (two ladies - one in grey).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> We use this hold for all sorts of dances in the UK. It is great for Strip the Willow and Lock Chain Swings (i.e. Grand Right and Left where you don?t pull by, instead you turn 1.5 times with each dancer).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I would thoroughly recommend this as an alternative Allemande style.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Try them and see what you think.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> (P.S. The really sad thing about that video Is the swings. If only the caller had told them to take the same forearm hold and join left hands underneath, then they could have had so much more fun swinging!)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> (P.P.S. I love this dance. Nottingham Swing. I spent my first 50 years in Nottingham, so I have been dancing this dance for nearly 50 years now and I still love it.)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> (P.P.P.S. The dance is actually from Northamptonshire - 50 mile south.)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Happy dancing, <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> John <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England <a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html " target="_blank">http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html </a>for Live Music Ceilidhs <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://www.contrafusion.co.uk " target="_blank">http://www.contrafusion.co.uk </a>for Dancing in Kent <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://www.modernjive.com " target="_blank">http://www.modernjive.com </a>for Modern Jive DVDs<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> URL: <<a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/b127557f/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/b127557f/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message: 8<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 12:11:53 +0100<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: Folk Dance <<a ymailto="mailto:ceilidh.caller.bob@gmail.com" href="mailto:ceilidh.caller.bob@gmail.com">ceilidh.caller.bob@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To: John Sweeney <<a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Cc: "Caller's discussion list" <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <<a ymailto="mailto:CAApffDbzL5UbtDskBPvuH6MokyaU16MpRQof0w-CRkW4jH4Htg@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:CAApffDbzL5UbtDskBPvuH6MokyaU16MpRQof0w-CRkW4jH4Htg@mail.gmail.com">CAApffDbzL5UbtDskBPvuH6MokyaU16MpRQof0w-CRkW4jH4Htg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I agree with John's concerns over gripping in the forearm hold, and the<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> increased security of the elbow cup - provided dancers are reminded that<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> thumbs do not belong in the soft, vulnerable inside of elbows!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> However, I think the full elbow cup grip gives up a certain freedom of<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> disengagement and if we tried to use it universally would result in some<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> awkward transitions - balance the wave to swing through for instance would<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> be clunky with an elbow cup. A well taught hooked or flat hand (properly<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> vertical and balanced!) hand allemande would be my preference.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I'm not sure I'm clear on the "flat" grip issues - could someone give me a<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> clear definition of what they consider to be this problematic option?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Bob<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 10:19 AM John Sweeney via Callers <<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Hmm? I seem to have stirred up a hornet?s nest! It is great to see<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> discussion on this important topic.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> There are two very different forearm holds.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> *** In front of the elbow ***:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> This is the MWSD version. Callerlab defines it as:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> ?Forearm: The arms are held past the wrist but not past the elbow joint.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Each dancer places the hand on the inside of the arm of the person with<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> whom he is to work. The fingers and thumb are held in close. The center of<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> the turn will be at the joined arms, so, while turning, each dancer is<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> moving equally around the other.?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I think this is what Andrea is describing (my apologies if I am wrong).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I don?t like this one. Sorry.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> The connection is not as good as it could be.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Good connection can often only be achieved by gripping the other person?s<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> arm.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> It provides the opportunity to grip hard.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I often find that, due to different arm lengths, the gap between by thumb<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> and index finger is pressed against the inside of the other person?s upper<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> arm. This can be uncomfortable.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> The one I do like is:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> *** Behind the elbow ***:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Put your thumb beside your fingers. Curve your hand. Place your forearms<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> together. Place your curved hand behind your partner?s forearm, just above<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> the elbow. Get close enough so that your upper arm is vertical.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> This is a great connection.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> There is no need to grip.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> You are close together so that you can turn really well.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> It is very effective for 1.5 turns.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Thumbs are not involved so the chance of gripping is greatly reduced.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> It can be achieved instantaneously.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> There is little opportunity to mess it up.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> You can see it being used in this video:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wncJcFPVo" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wncJcFPVo</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> There is a good example 5 seconds in - look at the second couple on the<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> right (two ladies - one in grey).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> We use this hold for all sorts of dances in the UK. It is great for Strip<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> the Willow and Lock Chain Swings (i.e. Grand Right and Left where you don?t<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> pull by, instead you turn 1.5 times with each dancer).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I would thoroughly recommend this as an alternative Allemande style.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Try them and see what you think.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> (P.S. The really sad thing about that video Is the swings. If only the<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> caller had told them to take the same forearm hold and join left hands<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> underneath, then they could have had so much more fun swinging!)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> (P.P.S. I love this dance. Nottingham Swing. I spent my first 50 years<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> in Nottingham, so I have been dancing this dance for nearly 50 years now<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> and I still love it.)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> (P.P.P.S. The dance is actually from Northamptonshire - 50 mile south.)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Happy dancing,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> John<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England <a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a> 01233 625 362 & 07802<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> 940 574<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html " target="_blank">http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html </a>for Live Music<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Ceilidhs<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://www.contrafusion.co.uk " target="_blank">http://www.contrafusion.co.uk </a>for Dancing in Kent<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://www.modernjive.com " target="_blank">http://www.modernjive.com </a>for Modern Jive DVDs<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> URL: <<a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/3c610c8c/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/3c610c8c/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message: 9<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 12:46:55 +0100<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: "John Sweeney" <<a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To: "'Caller's discussion list'" <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message-ID: <005001d50fca$e3e4f0e0$abaed2a0$@modernjive.com><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> The Cupped-Elbow Forearm Hold is NOT suitable for all moves!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Waves are unquestionably much better with the standard contra Elbows-Down Palm-to-Palm hand holds. As are Swing Thrus. As Callerlab says, ?All hands are joined in hands-up position, elbows in close. Exert slight pressure to assist opposite dancer in turning. Arcing turns should be utilized rather than pull by type of movements and should flow effortlessly from one turn to the other so that you are in a sense, "weaving" along the line.? (Sadly very few of the MWSD dancers that I have danced with seem to have understood this; they do lousy Waves with hand-holds at waist level and Grand Right & Left instead of Swing Thru!)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I don?t find dis-engagement to be an issue with a Cupped-Elbow Forearm Hold in the moves that I use it for. But it certainly doesn?t give the ability to spin out of it. The standard contra Allemande is much better if you want to spin out of Allemande Left 1.5 or Contra Corners. If only we could find a way to get people to do it better?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Happy dancing, <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> John <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England <a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html " target="_blank">http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html </a>for Live Music Ceilidhs <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://www.contrafusion.co.uk " target="_blank">http://www.contrafusion.co.uk </a>for Dancing in Kent <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://www.modernjive.com " target="_blank">http://www.modernjive.com </a>for Modern Jive DVDs<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: Folk Dance <<a ymailto="mailto:ceilidh.caller.bob@gmail.com" href="mailto:ceilidh.caller.bob@gmail.com">ceilidh.caller.bob@gmail.com</a>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Sent: 21 May 2019 12:12<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To: John Sweeney <<a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Cc: Caller's discussion list <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I agree with John's concerns over gripping in the forearm hold, and the increased security of the elbow cup - provided dancers are reminded that thumbs do not belong in the soft, vulnerable inside of elbows!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> However, I think the full elbow cup grip gives up a certain freedom of disengagement and if we tried to use it universally would result in some awkward transitions - balance the wave to swing through for instance would be clunky with an elbow cup. A well taught hooked or flat hand (properly vertical and balanced!) hand allemande would be my preference. <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I'm not sure I'm clear on the "flat" grip issues - could someone give me a clear definition of what they consider to be this problematic option? <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Bob<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 10:19 AM John Sweeney via Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> > wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Hmm? I seem to have stirred up a hornet?s nest! It is great to see discussion on this important topic.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> There are two very different forearm holds.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> *** In front of the elbow ***:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> This is the MWSD version. Callerlab defines it as:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ?Forearm: The arms are held past the wrist but not past the elbow joint. Each dancer places the hand on the inside of the arm of the person with whom he is to work. The fingers and thumb are held in close. The center of the turn will be at the joined arms, so, while turning, each dancer is moving equally around the other.?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I think this is what Andrea is describing (my apologies if I am wrong).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I don?t like this one. Sorry.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> The connection is not as good as it could be.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Good connection can often only be achieved by gripping the other person?s arm.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> It provides the opportunity to grip hard.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I often find that, due to different arm lengths, the gap between by thumb and index finger is pressed against the inside of the other person?s upper arm. This can be uncomfortable.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> The one I do like is:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> *** Behind the elbow ***:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Put your thumb beside your fingers. Curve your hand. Place your forearms together. Place your curved hand behind your partner?s forearm, just above the elbow. Get close enough so that your upper arm is vertical.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> This is a great connection.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> There is no need to grip.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> You are close together so that you can turn really well.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> It is very effective for 1.5 turns.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Thumbs are not involved so the chance of gripping is greatly reduced.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> It can be achieved instantaneously.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> There is little opportunity to mess it up.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> You can see it being used in this video: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wncJcFPVo" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wncJcFPVo</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> There is a good example 5 seconds in - look at the second couple on the right (two ladies - one in grey).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> We use this hold for all sorts of dances in the UK. It is great for Strip the Willow and Lock Chain Swings (i.e. Grand Right and Left where you don?t pull by, instead you turn 1.5 times with each dancer).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I would thoroughly recommend this as an alternative Allemande style.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Try them and see what you think.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> (P.S. The really sad thing about that video Is the swings. If only the caller had told them to take the same forearm hold and join left hands underneath, then they could have had so much more fun swinging!)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> (P.P.S. I love this dance. Nottingham Swing. I spent my first 50 years in Nottingham, so I have been dancing this dance for nearly 50 years now and I still love it.)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> (P.P.P.S. The dance is actually from Northamptonshire - 50 mile south.)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Happy dancing, <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> John <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England <a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a>> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html " target="_blank">http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html </a>for Live Music Ceilidhs <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://www.contrafusion.co.uk " target="_blank">http://www.contrafusion.co.uk </a>for Dancing in Kent <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://www.modernjive.com " target="_blank">http://www.modernjive.com </a>for Modern Jive DVDs<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> URL: <<a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/4ee4785d/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/4ee4785d/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message: 10<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 09:50:34 -0400<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: Andrea Nettleton <<a ymailto="mailto:twirly-girl@bellsouth.net" href="mailto:twirly-girl@bellsouth.net">twirly-girl@bellsouth.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Cc: Caller's discussion list <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:ED001484-B47C-4463-998B-1C9201BCF5C1@bellsouth.net" href="mailto:ED001484-B47C-4463-998B-1C9201BCF5C1@bellsouth.net">ED001484-B47C-4463-998B-1C9201BCF5C1@bellsouth.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I think thumb pressure, even finger ?pressure? has to be avoided and it?s avoidance taught thoroughly no matter the hold. I once had nerve pain for weeks after a cupped elbow hold in which that nerve going into the front inside of the elbow was deeply squashed by a zealously gripping digit, I think thumb. The non universality and also the too close to my bust fingers (both asthe hand enters and if any jostling occurs) make me dislike that cupped elbow hold very much, totally besides that nerve pinch I had. The forearm is taught explicitly as not a grip and I think it works fine for every turn I?ve attempted. Rory o mores and box circulates, not being turns, would be taught using a W arm, fingertip connection or however we want to cast that. <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I too want to hear how the flat palm to palm could even work and how it is motivated.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Also, while we have extolled the virtues of forearm and elbow cup, or even the old hold, I haven?t heard anyone deny how often it fails, with wrists twisted and shoulders and elbows straining, fingers squished, tender parts of hands hurt, and/or weight utterly missing or arm wrestle level. Above all I?m waiting for someone to say they have a way to teach it that truly prevents these many evils. I can?t get behind it whole heartedly, however theoretically universal, until we have that. <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Andrea<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Sent from my iPhone<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> On May 21, 2019, at 7:46 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> The Cupped-Elbow Forearm Hold is NOT suitable for all moves!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Waves are unquestionably much better with the standard contra Elbows-Down Palm-to-Palm hand holds. As are Swing Thrus. As Callerlab says, ?All hands are joined in hands-up position, elbows in close. Exert slight pressure to assist opposite dancer in turning. Arcing turns should be utilized rather than pull by type of movements and should flow effortlessly from one turn to the other so that you are in a sense, "weaving" along the line.? (Sadly very few of the MWSD dancers that I have danced with seem to have understood this; they do lousy Waves with hand-holds at waist level and Grand Right & Left instead of Swing Thru!)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I don?t find dis-engagement to be an issue with a Cupped-Elbow Forearm Hold in the moves that I use it for. But it certainly doesn?t give the ability to spin out of it. The standard contra Allemande is much better if you want to spin out of Allemande Left 1.5 or Contra Corners. If only we could find a way to get people to do it better?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Happy dancing, <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> John <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England <a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html " target="_blank">http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html </a>for Live Music Ceilidhs <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://www.contrafusion.co.uk " target="_blank">http://www.contrafusion.co.uk </a>for Dancing in Kent <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://www.modernjive.com " target="_blank">http://www.modernjive.com </a>for Modern Jive DVDs<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> From: Folk Dance <<a ymailto="mailto:ceilidh.caller.bob@gmail.com" href="mailto:ceilidh.caller.bob@gmail.com">ceilidh.caller.bob@gmail.com</a>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Sent: 21 May 2019 12:12<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> To: John Sweeney <<a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Cc: Caller's discussion list <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I agree with John's concerns over gripping in the forearm hold, and the increased security of the elbow cup - provided dancers are reminded that thumbs do not belong in the soft, vulnerable inside of elbows!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> However, I think the full elbow cup grip gives up a certain freedom of disengagement and if we tried to use it universally would result in some awkward transitions - balance the wave to swing through for instance would be clunky with an elbow cup. A well taught hooked or flat hand (properly vertical and balanced!) hand allemande would be my preference. <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I'm not sure I'm clear on the "flat" grip issues - could someone give me a clear definition of what they consider to be this problematic option? <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Bob<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 10:19 AM John Sweeney via Callers <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Hmm? I seem to have stirred up a hornet?s nest! It is great to see discussion on this important topic.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> There are two very different forearm holds.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> *** In front of the elbow ***:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> This is the MWSD version. Callerlab defines it as:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> ?Forearm: The arms are held past the wrist but not past the elbow joint. Each dancer places the hand on the inside of the arm of the person with whom he is to work. The fingers and thumb are held in close. The center of the turn will be at the joined arms, so, while turning, each dancer is moving equally around the other.?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I think this is what Andrea is describing (my apologies if I am wrong).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I don?t like this one. Sorry.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> The connection is not as good as it could be.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Good connection can often only be achieved by gripping the other person?s arm.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> It provides the opportunity to grip hard.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I often find that, due to different arm lengths, the gap between by thumb and index finger is pressed against the inside of the other person?s upper arm. This can be uncomfortable.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> The one I do like is:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> *** Behind the elbow ***:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Put your thumb beside your fingers. Curve your hand. Place your forearms together. Place your curved hand behind your partner?s forearm, just above the elbow. Get close enough so that your upper arm is vertical.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> This is a great connection.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> There is no need to grip.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> You are close together so that you can turn really well.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> It is very effective for 1.5 turns.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Thumbs are not involved so the chance of gripping is greatly reduced.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> It can be achieved instantaneously.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> There is little opportunity to mess it up.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> You can see it being used in this video: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wncJcFPVo" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wncJcFPVo</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> There is a good example 5 seconds in - look at the second couple on the right (two ladies - one in grey).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> We use this hold for all sorts of dances in the UK. It is great for Strip the Willow and Lock Chain Swings (i.e. Grand Right and Left where you don?t pull by, instead you turn 1.5 times with each dancer).<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> I would thoroughly recommend this as an alternative Allemande style.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Try them and see what you think.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> (P.S. The really sad thing about that video Is the swings. If only the caller had told them to take the same forearm hold and join left hands underneath, then they could have had so much more fun swinging!)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> (P.P.S. I love this dance. Nottingham Swing. I spent my first 50 years in Nottingham, so I have been dancing this dance for nearly 50 years now and I still love it.)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> (P.P.P.S. The dance is actually from Northamptonshire - 50 mile south.)<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Happy dancing, <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> John <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England <a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html " target="_blank">http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html </a>for Live Music Ceilidhs <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://www.contrafusion.co.uk " target="_blank">http://www.contrafusion.co.uk </a>for Dancing in Kent <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <a href="http://www.modernjive.com " target="_blank">http://www.modernjive.com </a>for Modern Jive DVDs<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>>> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> URL: <<a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/a54e757c/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/a54e757c/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message: 11<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 18:31:22 +0100<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> From: "John Sweeney" <<a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> To: "'Caller's discussion list'" <<a ymailto="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@sharedweight.net">callers@sharedweight.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Message-ID: <001901d50ffb$025a06c0$070e1440$@modernjive.com><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Hi Andrea,<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Absolutely. All moves should be taught explicitly as not a grip.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Amazing! There is always something new to learn. I have been dancing the cupped elbow hold for over 50 years, and taught it to literally thousands of dancers. I have never heard about there being a challenge regarding bust contact. I checked with my wife and she has never encountered it either.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Just to clarify: I was not suggesting in any way that either forearm hold should be used in modern American contra dancing. I was just clarifying the various version of the move in response to someone?s query about what the hold is.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> The cupped elbow hold definitely has its place in various parts of the wonderful spectrum of traditional/folk/country/contra dancing.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I would only ever suggest it as an option in contra dancing if someone had an injury and didn?t want to use the standard contra Allemande hold. It could also be offered in self-defence, instead of the fist-to-fist ?hold?, when encountering someone in the line that you know is likely to hurt you.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> The standard contra Allemande hold is undoubtedly here to stay. It is by far the best option for moves like Rory O?More and Swing Thru, and it is established across the world as the way to do a modern American contra dance Allemande.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> So, all we can try to do is improve people?s technique.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Quite often a new caller will learn how to call a dance, get up in front of an experienced crowd, walk through the dance calling the moves, then call the dance, calling all the right words at the right time, and relying on the experienced dancers to help the beginners through the dance. The dance works. The caller will then consider themself to be a contra dance caller, without ever having actually taught anything at all.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> In the UK the EFDSS changed the name of the person holding the microphone from ?teacher? to ?caller? some time in the 1950s.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I feel that very few modern callers realise that teaching is part of the job.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> We callers are the only ones who can improve the dancers? technique. I just wish that all callers realised this and took responsibility for it. It only takes a few seconds during each walk-through to drop a pearl of wisdom into the mix. It doesn?t take long to say one of these:<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Allemande: It?s not arm-wrestling - if your hand moves towards you, you lose!<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Allemande: Make a good connection then relax - your muscles are for fighting centrifugal force, not your partner.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Allemande 1.5: Keep your hands mid-way between you with nice W-shaped arms and take bigger steps.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Circle Left 3/4; Pass Through: It?s six steps for the circle and two to pass through - don?t be late for your new neighbour.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Swing: Plan the end of the move so your are both facing the right way on time.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Wrist-Lock Stars: Make sure your thumb is on top with your fingers so that you can?t grip.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Etc.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> I have often though of putting a poster at the door saying, ?Leave your thumbs at the door!?<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Maybe we could all share our favourite teaching phrases and make a database of them to encourage all callers to do some teaching.<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Happy dancing, <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> John <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England <a ymailto="mailto:john@modernjive.com" href="mailto:john@modernjive.com">john@modernjive.com</a> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html " target="_blank">http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html </a>for Live Music Ceilidhs <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://www.contrafusion.co.uk " target="_blank">http://www.contrafusion.co.uk </a>for Dancing in Kent <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://www.modernjive.com " target="_blank">http://www.modernjive.com </a>for Modern Jive DVDs<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> -------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> URL: <<a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/96e98d10/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20190521/96e98d10/attachment-0001.html</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Subject: Digest Footer<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> ------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> <br></div><div dir="ltr">>> End of Callers Digest, Vol 61, Issue 9<br></div><div dir="ltr">>> **************************************<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <br></div><div dir="ltr">> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">> List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">> List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">List Name: Callers mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">List Address: <a ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">Archives: <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/</a><br></div><blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></div>
</body></html>