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Reminds me of a mediation I was sort of part of, where a pure-breed
female dog was unsuccessfully inseminated by another of that breed.
"Bitch" and "Stud" were used liberally, and, of course,
accurately...<br>
<br>
(It was a small claims court, we mediated, and the resulting
decision--validated by the small claims judge--was: the person who
owned the bitch got the pick of a litter from a bitch owned by the
person with the stud. A result that would never have occurred had it
gone to a judge. Both parties were satisfied with the result, if not
exactly happy.)<br>
<br>
~erik hoffman<br>
oakland, ca<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/22/2016 9:15 AM, Martha Wild via
Callers wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:407C8D13-E216-4F6E-AC20-A585B5AB258D@sbcglobal.net"
type="cite">
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And I don’t ban those words from my conversation if they are
appropriate and in context. My daughter raises chickens. We talk
about the cocks and the hens. In the lab the carboys have
stopcocks on them. I have friends called Dick and I use their
right name. Context is important, though if I were in the presence
of an English language learner I might be careful assuming my
listeners were not as familiar with different words. But that is
also context.
<div class="">Martha</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 22, 2016, at 9:04 AM, Ron Blechner <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:contraron@gmail.com"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:contraron@gmail.com">contraron@gmail.com</a></a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<p dir="ltr" class="">It also means that I refrain from
the following word uses:</p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">"Gay" meaning happy.<br class="">
"Cock" meaning rooster.<br class="">
"Pussy" meaning cat.<br class="">
"Douche" meaning to shower.</p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">This, as an aside, was a funny email
to write. Apologies for any offended, but I use
slang/swear words to make a serious point, and we're all
mature here. I hope.</p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">Ron</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 22, 2016 12:01 PM, "Ron
Blechner" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:contraron@gmail.com" class="">contraron@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution" class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr" class="">Sargon, </p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">You and I don't get to decide
what millions of people think a word means. it's the
nature of language. Logic often has no bearing on
it. </p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">In the same way "negro" is
derived from Latin for "black", and aptly may
describe a color, it's still inappropriate and
offensive in most human contexts nowadays.</p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">When a word stereotypes a group
of people, the only ones who get to decide the
proper use of that word is... that group of people.</p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">...</p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">As for contra communities, until
there's more groundswell of support for changing
"gypsy", it's an uphill battle. I think perhaps the
smart thing for those of us concerned with not using
the word is to educate. At the same time, I fully
respect callers choosing to use their own
replacements.</p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">Ron Blechner</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 22, 2016 11:50 AM,
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sargondj@gmail.com" target="_blank"
class="">sargondj@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br
type="attribution" class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto" class="">
<div class="">I disagree. If it is fair to
condemn a word despite widespread ignorance of
its racist etymology (such as the very real
problem with the verb "gyp"), then the inverse
must be true: it is fair to exonerate a word
despite widespread ignorance of its non-racist
etymology (e.g., niggardly). That a word
falsely gets attributed to a category in which
it doesn't belong is irrelevant. If two
separate meanings/derivations converge to an
identically spelled modern word, I don't
believe the innocent word (when used in its
original context) deserves to be written off.
Let us truly abide by what you claim to
support: its current use *is* relevant. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">On Jan 21, 2016, at 13:25, Ron
Blechner via Callers <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net"
target="_blank" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a></a>>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<p dir="ltr" class="">Martha,</p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">Regardless of whether
it was derived from Welsh hundreds of
years ago, would you say more than 0.1% of
dancers know that? Or, do you think 99.9%+
of dancers associate "gypsy" the dance
move with the slang for wandering people?</p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">Regardless of its
origin, its current use is relevant.</p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">Ron</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 21, 2016
12:15 PM, "Martha Wild via Callers" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net"
target="_blank" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a></a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution" class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"
class="">As mentioned, there are many
words we use that are even considered
impolite but only depending on
context. The nickname for Richard, for
example. Lots of men proudly use that
as their name, but it’s also a really
offensive term. The name Randy has
other contexts, yet we use it without
any problem in the context of someone
with that as their name. (Note the use
of the plural for the generic singular
pronoun, which I’ve done for years,
unhappy with he/him for that term and
that just sort of started happening).
If our word actually came down from
Welsh, and has no relationship to the
Romani whatsoever, then it would seem
even more reason to recognize that it
is context dependent and completely
divorced from the pejorative use of
the unfortunately similar word in
other countries.
<div class="">Martha</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 21, 2016,
at 5:56 AM, Janet Bertog via
Callers <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net"
target="_blank" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a></a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">I have
contacted Carol and have
begun a discussion. I still
have several unanswered
questions but one thing I
did learn is that the Romani
have claimed the word and
deemed it offensive and feel
it should not be used, in
any context, in any
language. More about why
she herself uses the word
later. One thing I asked her
was about her insistence on
the use of a capital G. To
me, this would indicate that
Gypsy would refer to the
ethnicity, while gypsy would
have a possibly completely
different meaning.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We know that
gipsy/gip was being used
in country dances at least
in 1909 when Cecil Sharp
wrote them down. Two of
the three dances in the
1909 book originated in
the 1500s, one ECD and one
Morris Dance from
Scotland. We do not know
if they originally used
the terms gip/gipsy in the
1500s, but we do know that
gip, at least, has another
meaning in Welsh (a celtic
language) - gaze or
glance. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">So, my
conversation with Carol is
ongoing, and unresolved.
But if you feel that a
group can claim a word and
then claim that it is a
slur, there are a lot of
other words you should
stop using as well. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Janet</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br
class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 3:00
AM, Erik Hoffman via
Callers <span dir="ltr"
class=""><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">What's
in a word? As this list
points out, it gets
confusing.<br class="">
<br class="">
Like Martha, I stopped
using "Ladies," and
"Gents," or "Gentlemen,"
because they are words
steeped in class-ism.
And after years of being
told we live in a
classless society, the
lie of that became
clear.<br class="">
<br class="">
But, more recently I was
approached by a man who
felt "Ladies," and
"Gents" were roles
anyone could play
whereas "Men" and
"Women" really did refer
to what was between our
legs, and made it more
uncomfortable to switch
roles. Also, even though
we live in a severely
class society, the words
"Ladies" and "Gents"
don't seem to carry that
weight any more.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Then again, in Berkeley
we've switched to
"gender free," and use
"Ravens" and "Larks"
now.<br class="">
<br class="">
This is all to say,
those who come to the
dance have many
differing associations
with words. And
sometimes it is
important that we
listen.<br class="">
<br class="">
Take "He" and "She." We
all know that "He" has
been the generic pronoun
where "She" refers only
to women. Since we live
in a society dominated
by the patriarchal
Christian religion, it's
clear that using "He"
and "Him" generically
supports this concept.
Many of us, in the
sixties and seventies
counteracted this male
dominance by using "She"
and "Her" as the generic
pronoun. It was
startling how different
it feels to switch to
those. There are now
corners pushing to just
use "They" and "Them"
for everyone, like we
use "you" for both
plural and singular.
Maybe it will take
hold...<br class="">
<br class="">
But all this is to say,
these little words do
have an affect on how we
think about things.<br
class="">
<br class="">
So now we are thinking
about "gypsy." Or,
better with
capitalization, "Gypsy."
Is it derogatory? To
some, not all. Is that
reason enough to change?
Perhaps for some. I've
started using "Right
Shoulder Turn," and
"Left Shoulder Turn." It
doesn't slide off the
tongue, an isn't as
colorful, but it is more
descriptive. At Contra
Carnivale, Susan
Michaels said someone
had come up with
"Roma-around," or
"Romaround.."<br
class="">
<br class="">
So we're all dealing
with it, and considering
this as:<br class="">
<br class="">
Some of us are attached
to our words, and don't
want to loose it. Some
of us are vociferous
about keeping it. And
some of us are searching
for a substitute that
might work better. Seems
about right.<br class="">
<br class="">
Mostly, I want to
suggest, as we struggle
with this, consider how
our language and word
choice does affect
others, whether we mean
it to or not. As
callers, we are in the
public eye--granted a
small pond of the
public--but our words do
go out there and cause
others to think, too.<br
class="">
<br class="">
What's in a word? A lot.<br
class="">
<br class="">
~erik hoffman<br
class="">
oakland, ca
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