<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:13px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441566842313_477910"><span>Luke: </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441566842313_477913"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441566842313_477912">Your assessment is inaccurate. This is not a matter where levity is acceptable.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441566842313_477913"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441566842313_484204">Creating a situation which could force someone into close, almost intimate proximity with a person perceived as emotionally or physically threatening is inappropriate.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441566842313_477913"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441566842313_484206">A lesser problem is that one can get a shadow who one considers personable, but very unpleasant for swinging (for example, due to either height difference, or a body position or weight distribution which unnecessarily strains one's own body).</span></div><div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441566842313_478692"> </div><div class="signature" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441566842313_478694">Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844</div> <br><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: garamond, new york, times, serif; font-size: 13px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:53 PM, Luke Donforth <luke.donev@gmail.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv2228894930"><div><div dir="ltr">Mr. Fuerst, I again think your attempt to inject levity into a conversation have come across as crass and inappropriate. <div><br clear="none"></div><div>Asking about shadow swings on a list for calling is pertinent; joking about men groping women dancers isn't.</div></div><div class="yiv2228894930gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv2228894930gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv2228894930gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="yiv2228894930yqt7796719458" id="yiv2228894930yqt77370"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:13px;"><div>Asking about how to appropriately do dances with shadow swings seems like asking how men can appropriately grope women during a dance.</div><span class="yiv2228894930"></span><div dir="ltr"> <br clear="none"></div><div>Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">217 239 5844</a></div> <br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div><div class="yiv2228894930h5"><div style="display:block;"> <div style="font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:13px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:41 PM, Michael Fuerst <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mjerryfuerst@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mjerryfuerst@yahoo.com">mjerryfuerst@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div><div><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:13px;"><div>One can also be miffed at having to repeatedly swing a shadow who one finds very pleasant as a person, but just awkward to swing with (too tall, too short, distributes his/her weight during a swing in a way that strains some part of you).</div><div></div><div> </div><div dir="ltr">Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="">217 239 5844</a></div> <br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div style="display:block;"> <div style="font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:13px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div><div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:30 PM, Mac Mckeever via Callers <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div><div><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><div dir="ltr"><span>I agree with Michael - I can't see any reason I would want to call a dance with a shadow swing. If the rest of the dance is that good - modify it to get rid of that swing.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><span></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>Chances are you are going to make at least one dancer very uncomfortable. I avoid any figures that introduce that risk (not a big fan of men's chains either).</span></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><span></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>There are lots of great dances out there - so I don't see a need to knowingly offend dancers with the few dances that contain risky figures. Warning them ahead of time creates a very awkward situation on the floor and someone is going to lose. <br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><span></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>Mac McKeever</span></div><br clear="none"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div><div dir="ltr"> ----- Forwarded Message -----<br clear="none"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Perry Shafran via Callers <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:20 PM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Callers] Shadow Swing Disclaimers?<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <div><br clear="none"><div><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir="ltr"><span>I'm going to go with Andrea's well-written note on this. I understand that the goal is to prevent people from dancing with people who really make them uncomfortable (i.e. creepers). However, if you suggest "if you need to make changes, do so now", that will open up the potential for people to refuse a shadow for ANY reason (they smell, they're too fat, they're too old, they're not my BFF, they're the same gender, they're a beginner, whatever), and that could cause a whole world of hurt - especially in a community where we welcome all and celebrate differences in people. There is no graceful way to do this, really, that I can think of. <br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>For the most part, if there is someone that a person does not want to encounter in a dance, much less be a shadow, that person will find a different line to dance in. At least that has been my experience. Callers should not be encouraging people to find someone "better" than the potluck shadow that they got. I would suggest not calling a dance with a shadow swing - that would ward off potential problems with shadows people don't want to swing and also prevent the hurt that would come with suggesting people make changes for whatever reason. <br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><span></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>Perry<br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span></span><br clear="none"> </div><div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div><div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Maia McCormick via Callers <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, September 8, 2015 11:06 AM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Callers] Shadow Swing Disclaimers?<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <div><br clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr">Hey all,<div><br clear="none"></div><div>First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the conversation I want to have in this thread; <b>I ask that you respond to the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this particular thread. </b>This should help keep this thread on track and hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv. Thanks!</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this method? Suggestions of others?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Cheers.</div><div>Maia</div></div></div><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Callers mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net">http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div><br clear="none"><div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Callers mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net">http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div><br clear="none"><div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Callers mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net">http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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<br clear="none"></blockquote></div><br clear="none"><br clear="all"><div><br clear="none"></div>-- <br clear="none"><div class="yiv2228894930gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Luke Donforth<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Luke.Donev@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Luke.Donev@gmail.com">Luke.Donforth@gmail.com</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
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