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</head><body><p>I'm feeling really thick in the head in reading these discussion thread. How do you explain to the dancers who is a first corner and who is second corner. <br><br>How do you explain swinging and who should end in which spot?<br></p><p><br></p><p>Isn't 1st corner and 2nd corner the way you are using them just another substitute for gents/ladies; jets/rubies; etc etc etc?</p><p><br></p><p>Wouldn't new dancers be confused about being a #1 or #2 couple but also a 1st or 2nd corner at the same time?<br><br>This seems super confusing to newer dancers, but I haven't seen the program you called.<br></p><p><br></p><p>I'd love to know more. It's very intriguing.<br></p><p><br></p><p>Amy Carroll<br></p><p><br></p><blockquote type="cite"><p>On June 1, 2015 at 7:27 PM Ron Blechner via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:<br><br><br>Jim,<br><br>I think this approach is great for adding more dances with choice. ...<br>but at some point, people want advanced dances and/or medleys, and<br>limiting the move-set I don't find an acceptable compromise.<br><br>-Ron<br><br>On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Jim Hemphill <arcadian35@gmail.com> wrote:<br>> Proper Dance, gender free yet not too simple<br>> A1 Neighbor allemande left 1 1/2<br>> 1st corners allemande right 1 1/2<br>> A2 Scoop your partner as you go by, star promenade then butterfly<br>> 2nd corners swing in the center, then separate<br>> B1 Partner balance and swing<br>> B2 Take hands in a ring, balance and petranella<br>> Couple 2 swing in the center, end facing up<br>><br>> Dances can have variety and challenges without gender reference. In this<br>> dance, as long as you make clear in the teaching that after the neighbor<br>> allemande left 1 1/2 if you are facing in, you are a 1st corner so you<br>> allemande right, if facing out you are a 2nd corner, get ready to be scooped<br>> you can end the swings any way you want.<br>><br>> Ron, you are certainly right that not all dances can be easily taught in<br>> this manner, but in no way are all of these type of dances simple. I<br>> struggled with translating a "choose your noun" for ladies or gents because<br>> that is how I learned and think about the dance roles. The translation<br>> process adds a layer of complexity for me. I am just offering a different<br>> approach that works for me.<br>><br>> Thanks<br>> Jim<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers<br>> <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:<br>>><br>>> RE: Dave:<br>>><br>>> Clockwise / counterclockwise - too wordy, and some people have trouble<br>>> with this regardless.<br>>><br>>> Hey: What about on the left diagonal? Along the set?<br>>><br>>> I also really don't like the blaming of the dance if it's not 100%<br>>> intuitive. Plenty of dances flow great but have a counter-intuitive<br>>> element. Restricting dances to those without counter-intuitive moves<br>>> is basically saying, "Sorry, if we want to be genderfree, we need to<br>>> put a cap on how difficult a dance is. Sorry genderfree dancers, you<br>>> aren't allowed to dance too advanced." That's a big problem.<br>>><br>>> Rollaways can *not* be handled from left to right - who does the<br>>> rolling is not indicated at all!<br>>><br>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Dave Casserly<br>>> <david.j.casserly@gmail.com> wrote:<br>>> > Also with regard to Ron's questions, numbers 2 and 3 (who-leads-whom and<br>>> > who-walks-forward) can be handled by using the terms "clockwise" and<br>>> > "counterclockwise." As to 4 (who passes whom for a hey), I agree with<br>>> > Bob<br>>> > that if the dance is good, it should be obvious, but even if not, "pass<br>>> > left<br>>> > shoulders in the middle for a hey for four" can only be interpreted one<br>>> > way,<br>>> > so that fixes the issue of referring to roles. Roll-aways can be<br>>> > handled<br>>> > with "roll away from the left to the right" or "roll away from the right<br>>> > to<br>>> > the left."<br>>> ><br>>> > I'm not saying that it's perfect, but it is actually quite doable to<br>>> > call a<br>>> > dance without referring to roles at all, even without resorting to first<br>>> > or<br>>> > second corners.<br>>> ><br>>> > Perry asked for an example of a dance with global terminology used.<br>>> > Here's<br>>> > one (just picking a common, typical dance):<br>>> ><br>>> > Square Affair, by Becky Hill<br>>> ><br>>> > A1 Long Lines, 1st corners chain (or just say "chain" if you're dealing<br>>> > with<br>>> > experienced dancers and don't want to use the corners terminology)<br>>> > A2 Balance and pull by partner, pull by neighbor, balance and pull by<br>>> > partner, pull by neighbor<br>>> > B1 New neighbors balance and swing<br>>> > B2 Circle 3/4, partner swing<br>>> ><br>>> > Perry, you also mentioned that you are trying to figure out how global<br>>> > terminology would work for proper dances. I have always called proper<br>>> > dances using global terminology without even thinking about it. For<br>>> > Chorus<br>>> > Jig, for instance, why would you ever need to use the term "gent" or<br>>> > "lady"?<br>>> > Down the outside, back, down the middle, back and neighbor<br>>> > around-the-waist<br>>> > turn, 1s turn contra corners, 1s balance and swing. Nothing that any<br>>> > particular role does that the other role isn't doing at the same time.<br>>> ><br>>> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Bob Morgan via Callers<br>>> > <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:<br>>> >><br>>> >> With regard to Ron's questions<br>>> >><br>>> >> 1. Would be easily covered by 1st or 2nd corners walk forward to a wave<br>>> >><br>>> >> 2. Again can be done with reference to corners<br>>> >><br>>> >> 3. Not so familiar with these.<br>>> >><br>>> >> 4. You usually only need an obvious first pass person so not an issue I<br>>> >> think<br>>> >><br>>> >> 5. If you're facing out you turn, if you're facing across you walk is<br>>> >> how<br>>> >> I call it anyway<br>>> >><br>>> >> Bob<br>>> >><br>>> >> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers<br>>> >> <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:<br>>> >>><br>>> >>> Andrea, how would you handle the following:<br>>> >>><br>>> >>> 1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip<br>>> >>> to<br>>> >>> Lambertville, et all?<br>>> >>><br>>> >>> 2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star?<br>>> >>><br>>> >>> 3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal<br>>> >>> Pushers,<br>>> >>> Jurassic Redheads, etc.<br>>> >>><br>>> >>> 4. Indication of who is passing while calling a hey.<br>>> >>><br>>> >>> 5. Indication of who crosses, who turns in a box circulate?<br>>> >>><br>>> >>> 6. Indication any other role/position specific move that I haven't<br>>> >>> mentioned? Turn over right shoulder, as in Fairport Harbour?<br>>> >>> Rollaways?<br>>> >>><br>>> >>> None of these fall under the "most unusual figures" as you stated.<br>>> >>><br>>> >>> Ron<br>>> >>><br>>> >>> On Jun 1, 2015 11:59 AM, "Andrea Nettleton via Callers"<br>>> >>> <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:<br>>> >>>><br>>> >>>> In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at<br>>> >>>> Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use<br>>> >>>> of<br>>> >>>> global terminology for gender free contra. I would contend that if<br>>> >>>> used,<br>>> >>>> everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances. Only<br>>> >>>> the most<br>>> >>>> unusual figures/sequences would be unable to be called. The addition<br>>> >>>> of<br>>> >>>> first and second corner positions to the arsenal makes it possible<br>>> >>>> for same<br>>> >>>> role dancers to also be called upon to dance together without<br>>> >>>> reference to<br>>> >>>> gender. Second corners chain, or first corners allemande L 1 1/2 for<br>>> >>>> example. It would have to be agreed that this refers to those<br>>> >>>> standing in<br>>> >>>> those positions at that moment. In ECD we use first and second<br>>> >>>> corners to<br>>> >>>> refer to the people, first and second diagonals for the positions.<br>>> >>>> But<br>>> >>>> since we use diagonal to refer to those across and over one set, this<br>>> >>>> seems<br>>> >>>> unhelpful. Simply corner positions works better. I'm glad some<br>>> >>>> folks are<br>>> >>>> trying it out at last. I had hoped for an opportunity myself before<br>>> >>>> now.<br>>> >>>> Cheers,<br>>> >>>> Andrea<br>>> >>>><br>>> >>>> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask<br>>> >>>><br>>> >>>> On Jun 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers<br>>> >>>> <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:<br>>> >>>><br>>> >>>> The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment<br>>> >>>> in<br>>> >>>> gender free calling. Last night I called the contra dance in St.<br>>> >>>> Louis<br>>> >>>> using gender free calling without telling anyone. The experiment<br>>> >>>> was a<br>>> >>>> great success. I received lots of positive feedback on the evenings<br>>> >>>> dance.<br>>> >>>> At the break and after the dance I made a point to ask several<br>>> >>>> dancers, some<br>>> >>>> were callers as well, if they noticed anything different or unusual<br>>> >>>> about<br>>> >>>> the dances or how I taught them. One person noticed that there were<br>>> >>>> more<br>>> >>>> dances that included a swing in the center for couple 2 than usual.<br>>> >>>> No one<br>>> >>>> I talked to noticed that the calls and teaching were gender free.<br>>> >>>><br>>> >>>> It took some extra time to construct a fun, diverse 3 hour program,<br>>> >>>> but<br>>> >>>> it is certainly possible. Re-labeling the dancers is not the only<br>>> >>>> way to<br>>> >>>> call gender free.<br>>> >>>><br>>> >>>> If you are interested in the program I used or the larger collection<br>>> >>>> of<br>>> >>>> gender free dances I chose the program from, send me an email,<br>>> >>>> arcadian35@gmail.com.<br>>> >>>><br>>> >>>> Thanks,<br>>> >>>> Jim Hemphill<br>>> >>>><br>>> >>>><br>>> >>>><br>>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> >>>> Callers mailing list<br>>> >>>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net<br>>> >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net<br>>> >>>><br>>> >>>><br>>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> >>>> Callers mailing list<br>>> >>>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net<br>>> >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net<br>>> >>>><br>>> >>><br>>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>>> >>> Callers mailing list<br>>> >>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net<br>>> >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net<br>>> >>><br>>> >><br>>> >><br>>> >> _______________________________________________<br>>> >> Callers mailing list<br>>> >> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net<br>>> >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net<br>>> >><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > --<br>>> > David Casserly<br>>> > (cell) 781 258-2761<br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Callers mailing list<br>>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net<br>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net<br>><br>><br>_______________________________________________<br>Callers mailing list<br>Callers@lists.sharedweight.net<br>http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net<br></p></blockquote><p class="io-ox-signature">206-330-7308<br>calleramy.com</p></body></html>