<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond, new york, times, serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433196698496_36991"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433196698496_48278">How can one simply, consistently and clearly designate two persons to participate in an allemande ?</span></div><div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433196698496_38919"> </div><div class="signature" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433196698496_36966">Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844</div> <br><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: garamond, new york, times, serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Monday, June 1, 2015 5:41 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container">RE: Dave:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Clockwise / counterclockwise - too wordy, and some people have trouble<br clear="none">with this regardless.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Hey: What about on the left diagonal? Along the set?<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I also really don't like the blaming of the dance if it's not 100%<br clear="none">intuitive. Plenty of dances flow great but have a counter-intuitive<br clear="none">element. Restricting dances to those without counter-intuitive moves<br clear="none">is basically saying, "Sorry, if we want to be genderfree, we need to<br clear="none">put a cap on how difficult a dance is. Sorry genderfree dancers, you<br clear="none">aren't allowed to dance too advanced." That's a big problem.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Rollaways can *not* be handled from left to right - who does the<br clear="none">rolling is not indicated at all!<br clear="none"><div class="yqt8258588066" id="yqtfd24180"><br clear="none">On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Dave Casserly<br clear="none"><<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:david.j.casserly@gmail.com" href="mailto:david.j.casserly@gmail.com">david.j.casserly@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">> Also with regard to Ron's questions, numbers 2 and 3 (who-leads-whom and<br clear="none">> who-walks-forward) can be handled by using the terms "clockwise" and<br clear="none">> "counterclockwise." As to 4 (who passes whom for a hey), I agree with Bob<br clear="none">> that if the dance is good, it should be obvious, but even if not, "pass left<br clear="none">> shoulders in the middle for a hey for four" can only be interpreted one way,<br clear="none">> so that fixes the issue of referring to roles. Roll-aways can be handled<br clear="none">> with "roll away from the left to the right" or "roll away from the right to<br clear="none">> the left."<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> I'm not saying that it's perfect, but it is actually quite doable to call a<br clear="none">> dance without referring to roles at all, even without resorting to first or<br clear="none">> second corners.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> Perry asked for an example of a dance with global terminology used. Here's<br clear="none">> one (just picking a common, typical dance):<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> Square Affair, by Becky Hill<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> A1 Long Lines, 1st corners chain (or just say "chain" if you're dealing with<br clear="none">> experienced dancers and don't want to use the corners terminology)<br clear="none">> A2 Balance and pull by partner, pull by neighbor, balance and pull by<br clear="none">> partner, pull by neighbor<br clear="none">> B1 New neighbors balance and swing<br clear="none">> B2 Circle 3/4, partner swing<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> Perry, you also mentioned that you are trying to figure out how global<br clear="none">> terminology would work for proper dances. I have always called proper<br clear="none">> dances using global terminology without even thinking about it. For Chorus<br clear="none">> Jig, for instance, why would you ever need to use the term "gent" or "lady"?<br clear="none">> Down the outside, back, down the middle, back and neighbor around-the-waist<br clear="none">> turn, 1s turn contra corners, 1s balance and swing. Nothing that any<br clear="none">> particular role does that the other role isn't doing at the same time.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Bob Morgan via Callers<br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> With regard to Ron's questions<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> 1. Would be easily covered by 1st or 2nd corners walk forward to a wave<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> 2. Again can be done with reference to corners<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> 3. Not so familiar with these.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> 4. You usually only need an obvious first pass person so not an issue I<br clear="none">>> think<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> 5. If you're facing out you turn, if you're facing across you walk is how<br clear="none">>> I call it anyway<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Bob<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers<br clear="none">>> <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> Andrea, how would you handle the following:<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> 1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip to<br clear="none">>>> Lambertville, et all?<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> 2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star?<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> 3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal Pushers,<br clear="none">>>> Jurassic Redheads, etc.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> 4. Indication of who is passing while calling a hey.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> 5. Indication of who crosses, who turns in a box circulate?<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> 6. Indication any other role/position specific move that I haven't<br clear="none">>>> mentioned? Turn over right shoulder, as in Fairport Harbour? Rollaways?<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> None of these fall under the "most unusual figures" as you stated.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> Ron<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> On Jun 1, 2015 11:59 AM, "Andrea Nettleton via Callers"<br clear="none">>>> <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at<br clear="none">>>>> Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use of<br clear="none">>>>> global terminology for gender free contra. I would contend that if used,<br clear="none">>>>> everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances. Only the most<br clear="none">>>>> unusual figures/sequences would be unable to be called. The addition of<br clear="none">>>>> first and second corner positions to the arsenal makes it possible for same<br clear="none">>>>> role dancers to also be called upon to dance together without reference to<br clear="none">>>>> gender. Second corners chain, or first corners allemande L 1 1/2 for<br clear="none">>>>> example. It would have to be agreed that this refers to those standing in<br clear="none">>>>> those positions at that moment. In ECD we use first and second corners to<br clear="none">>>>> refer to the people, first and second diagonals for the positions. But<br clear="none">>>>> since we use diagonal to refer to those across and over one set, this seems<br clear="none">>>>> unhelpful. Simply corner positions works better. I'm glad some folks are<br clear="none">>>>> trying it out at last. I had hoped for an opportunity myself before now.<br clear="none">>>>> Cheers,<br clear="none">>>>> Andrea<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> On Jun 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers<br clear="none">>>>> <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment in<br clear="none">>>>> gender free calling. Last night I called the contra dance in St. Louis<br clear="none">>>>> using gender free calling without telling anyone. The experiment was a<br clear="none">>>>> great success. I received lots of positive feedback on the evenings dance.<br clear="none">>>>> At the break and after the dance I made a point to ask several dancers, some<br clear="none">>>>> were callers as well, if they noticed anything different or unusual about<br clear="none">>>>> the dances or how I taught them. One person noticed that there were more<br clear="none">>>>> dances that included a swing in the center for couple 2 than usual. No one<br clear="none">>>>> I talked to noticed that the calls and teaching were gender free.<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> It took some extra time to construct a fun, diverse 3 hour program, but<br clear="none">>>>> it is certainly possible. Re-labeling the dancers is not the only way to<br clear="none">>>>> call gender free.<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> If you are interested in the program I used or the larger collection of<br clear="none">>>>> gender free dances I chose the program from, send me an email,<br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:arcadian35@gmail.com." href="mailto:arcadian35@gmail.com.">arcadian35@gmail.com.</a><br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> Thanks,<br clear="none">>>>> Jim Hemphill<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>>>> Callers mailing list<br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>>>> Callers mailing list<br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>>> Callers mailing list<br clear="none">>>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none">>>> <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>> Callers mailing list<br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none">>><br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">> --<br clear="none">> David Casserly<br clear="none">> (cell) 781 258-2761<br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Callers mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net" href="mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net">Callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net" target="_blank">http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>