<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I understand your weariness with this topic, as I found myself last winter just wanting to know The Answer, so I could start using it and we could move on. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have changed my perspective about this, though. Through joining in a roundtable luncheon conversation at Puttin’ On the Dance conference a few months ago, I came to see that this is a folk process, and will take time, as all folk process does. It will ultimately be a good thing if there is a generally accepted set of words (certainly not a strict requirement, but something that’s generally accepted across the country, if possible) that meet the range of criteria, along the lines of those suggested by Ron in his matrix. It matters a lot that we find words that are inclusive and understandable, at least.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think that there is benefit to those folks who are working on this sharing their emerging ideas, and to the rest of us trying a few new things, keeping the dialogue alive, until it has become a non-question. We’re not there yet, but one day we’ll suddenly realize that we are!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 30, 2015, at 2:00 PM, susanelberger via Callers <<a href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" class="">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class=""><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10853" dir="ltr" class=""><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10963" class="">I do wonder whether this horse has been beaten to death. I doubt that there will be agreement, and that's fine. The topic has been on the list several times, and yes, I know I can ignore the postings, but enough seems to be more than enough.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10853" dir="ltr" class=""><span class=""><br class=""></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10853" dir="ltr" class=""><span class=""><br class=""></span></div><br class=""> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10907" class=""> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10906" class=""> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10905" class=""> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10904" class=""> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10945" class=""> <b class=""><span style="font-weight:bold;" class="">From:</span></b> Ron Blechner <<a href="mailto:contraron@gmail.com" class="">contraron@gmail.com</a>><br class=""> <b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">To:</span></b> Amy Wimmer <<a href="mailto:amywimmer@gmail.com" class="">amywimmer@gmail.com</a>> <br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Cc:</span></b> susanelberger <<a href="mailto:susanma1950@yahoo.com" class="">susanma1950@yahoo.com</a>>; callers <<a href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" class="">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> <br class=""> <b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 29, 2015 3:10 PM<br class=""> <b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Callers] Jets / rubies genderfree terms redux: gems?<br class=""> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10947"><br class=""><div id="yiv5194632109" class=""><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10953" class=""><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10998" class="">Care to branch off non-jet/ruby terms to a new email please?</div>
<div class="yiv5194632109gmail_quote" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10952">On May 29, 2015 2:45 PM, "Amy Wimmer via Callers" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" class="">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none" class=""><blockquote class="yiv5194632109gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10951"><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="yiv5194632109yqt9456869273" id="yiv5194632109yqt66093"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10950" class=""><div class="">I kinda like suns and moons better than lots of the other alternatives, for the same reasons Susan lists. Also, there's Sun Dance and Moon Dance, by Robert Cromartie: gents swing in Sun Dance and ladies swing in Moon Dance. A precedence, perhaps?</div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">-Amy<br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10949" class=""><br clear="none" class="">On May 29, 2015, at 8:00 AM, susanelberger via Callers <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" class="">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10959" class=""><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10958" class=""><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10957" class=""><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10956" class=""><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1433008430585_10955" class="">I have used suns and moons for years, and prefer them because they have one syllable each, sound completely different from each other, and are easy for the dancers to remember. I have never had any issue arise about gender bias from them. The conversation about which gems to use does seem a bit too overthought to me.</span></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><span class=""><br clear="none" class=""></span></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><span class="">Susan Elberger</span></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><span class="">Lowell, Massachusetts</span></div><br clear="none" class=""> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" class=""> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" class=""> <div dir="ltr" class=""> <hr size="1" class=""> <font size="2" face="Arial" class=""> <b class=""><span style="font-weight:bold;" class="">From:</span></b> Delia Clark via Callers <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" class="">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>><br clear="none" class=""> <b class=""><span style="font-weight:bold;" class="">To:</span></b> "<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" class="">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" class="">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> <br clear="none" class=""> <b class=""><span style="font-weight:bold;" class="">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 29, 2015 6:52 AM<br clear="none" class=""> <b class=""><span style="font-weight:bold;" class="">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Callers] Jets / rubies genderfree terms redux: gems?<br clear="none" class=""> </font> </div> <div class=""><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Okay, this conversation, plus the lunch table at the Puttin’ On the Dance Conference in Ottawa are FINALLY getting me to give up clinging to moons and stars (the only non-gender term I’ve ever used, which I have liked with families and have found works well, but which I understand is too gender-y to be acceptable as the solution we’re looking for - dang!). I am herewith committing to trying out Jets and Rubies next weekend at a dance I’m calling for a wedding of two women. Will report back.<div class=""><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">On May 29, 2015, at 1:56 AM, P. Campbell via Callers <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" class="">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:</div><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><span class=""></span></div><div class=""></div></div></div><div class=""><div class="">I like jets & rubies (and have used the terms) for a number of reasons. (Don't like gems for same reason about confusion).</div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">In a weird way, it's close enough to "lefts & rights" for me to have no trouble remembering who's who (with rubies starting with "r"), and, (apologies to those who might be offended), because it fits the same syllables for me as "gents & ladies" (which I use for historical dance) or "men & women".</div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">For some reason I just can't get a feel for larks & ravens (I have an idea of why but not worth sharing), and I'm not at all comfortable using bands & bares.</div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">For me, it's whatever will be the easiest for me to remember which side is which, and if my brain is wired to think of "jets" (black color) as more masculine and "rubies" (red color) as more feminine (so easier for me to link them to left & right), that's my mental visual process. (I tried apples & oranges once with a group of kids - it was terrible because I couldn't remember which was which side - I have to have some frame of reference).</div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">I think one of the reasons I have trouble with larks & ravens is because of having learned a foreign language that has a gender for nouns, and I want to make larks the right side and ravens the left, but then the syllable structure doesn't work for me. </div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">My 2 cents.</div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">Patricia</div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class="">Sent from my iPhone<div class=""><br clear="none" class="">On May 28, 2015, at 3:51 PM, Alan Winston via Callers <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net" class="">callers@lists.sharedweight.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">
</div></blockquote></div></div><div class=""><br clear="none" class="">
<br clear="none" class="">
<div class="">On 5/28/15 12:30 PM, Ron Blechner via
Callers wrote:<br clear="none" class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
</blockquote></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">For those interested in gender free contra dance
terms:</div><div dir="ltr" class="">1. Do you like or dislike jets / rubies ?</div><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div>
Like. (I'm responding on personal preference alone; I'm aware of
some objections to this, which I don't personally share.)<br clear="none" class="">
<br clear="none" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">
2. How would gems / rubies compare?</div>
</blockquote>
<br clear="none" class="">
Less good, because the soft "ms" would make the call less clear.
Also, rubies _are_ gems, so this is confusing.<br clear="none" class="">
<br clear="none" class="">
-- Alan<br clear="none" class="">
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