[Callers] Callers Digest, Vol 47, Issue 8
Eric Limbach
limberic at gmail.com
Wed Mar 14 13:16:51 PDT 2018
Re: More substitute terms for the g-word
I have used the term "Romanesque" for the move - its a sloppy miss-use of
the word "Roman" but it has the Roma kernel in it. And most people
recognise that it is a word for something.
Cheers,
Eric Limbach
Pocatello, ID
On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 2:11 PM, <callers-request at lists.sharedweight.net>
wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Martha Wild)
> 2. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Chip Hedler)
> 3. Re: Programming a Dance (Jean Gibson-Gorrindo)
> 4. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Donna Hunt)
> 5. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Yoyo Zhou)
> 6. Re: Programming a Dance (Dugan Murphy)
> 7. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Russell Frank)
> 8. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Elizabeth Szekeres)
> 9. Re: Programming a Dance (Bob Peterson)
> 10. Re: Programming a Dance (Mary Collins)
> 11. Re: Programming a Dance (Mary Collins)
> 12. Re: Programming a Dance (Linda S. Mrosko)
> 13. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Linda S. Mrosko)
> 14. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Cara Sawyer)
> 15. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Andrea Nettleton)
> 16. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Bob Hofkin)
> 17. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Angela DeCarlis)
> 18. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Don Veino)
> 19. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Cheryl Joyal)
> 20. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Amy Wimmer)
> 21. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Linda S. Mrosko)
> 22. More substitute terms for the g-word (Kalia Kliban)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 13:07:54 -0700
> From: Martha Wild <mawild at sbcglobal.net>
> To: John W Gintell <john at gintell.org>
> Cc: Perry Shafran <pshaf at yahoo.com>, Caller's discussion list
> <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID: <8BC4AEB3-D1F9-45AC-AC8F-E27E00719F80 at sbcglobal.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I don?t think right shoulder round is going to make the grade. It?s
> descriptive, certainly, but it is long and unwieldy and can?t be easily
> shortened to anything recognizable as you eliminate calls in the dance. So,
> I?m sorry, but I?m not going to be using it.
> Martha
>
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 12:53 PM, John W Gintell via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > I think it would be best if only one term is used by callers at all
> dances. I think this quite important for beginners (not necessarily just
> the first time) who face enough confusion learning the terminology. One of
> the reasons why beginners don?t return is that it is too confusing.
> >
> > And I too like hearing right shoulder round because it is descriptive.
> >
> >> On Mar 13, 2018, at 3:41 PM, Perry Shafran via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers at lists.sharedweight.net>>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I happen to *like* right shoulder round and have liked it ever since
> three callers at a dance event used it and it went rather flawlessly. I
> like the fact that it is actually descriptive in what you're doing. I
> think that the more we try to invent made-up words to try to make it sound
> fun and whimsey, the more we are likely to upset dancers who don't like
> that we're changing terms as it is. It may *sound* like a boring
> descriptor, but I feel my job as a caller is to describe the move and let
> the dancer decide what the mood is going to be for that individual dancer,
> based on their own feelings and their own connection to the music. So I
> plan to stick with "right shoulder round".
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 16:56:38 -0400
> From: Chip Hedler <chip.hedler at gmail.com>
> To: callers at sharedweight.net
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID:
> <CAPJW8ZEEhg7d=KrSHT9bqXqaSOcq24nBHpascc3Va_PCTD_o_A at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I've been using "eyeball dosido." Not elegant but everyone gets it
> immediately and never forgets what to do if I use it later on.
>
> Chip Hedler
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 4:07 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> > I don?t think right shoulder round is going to make the grade. It?s
> > descriptive, certainly, but it is long and unwieldy and can?t be easily
> > shortened to anything recognizable as you eliminate calls in the dance.
> So,
> > I?m sorry, but I?m not going to be using it.
> > Martha
> >
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 12:53 PM, John W Gintell via Callers <
> > callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > I think it would be best if only one term is used by callers at all
> > dances. I think this quite important for beginners (not necessarily just
> > the first time) who face enough confusion learning the terminology. One
> of
> > the reasons why beginners don?t return is that it is too confusing.
> >
> > And I too like hearing right shoulder round because it is descriptive.
> >
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 3:41 PM, Perry Shafran via Callers <
> > callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > I happen to *like* right shoulder round and have liked it ever since
> three
> > callers at a dance event used it and it went rather flawlessly. I like
> the
> > fact that it is actually descriptive in what you're doing. I think that
> > the more we try to invent made-up words to try to make it sound fun and
> > whimsey, the more we are likely to upset dancers who don't like that
> we're
> > changing terms as it is. It may *sound* like a boring descriptor, but I
> > feel my job as a caller is to describe the move and let the dancer decide
> > what the mood is going to be for that individual dancer, based on their
> own
> > feelings and their own connection to the music. So I plan to stick with
> > "right shoulder round".
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 14:28:16 -0700
> From: Jean Gibson-Gorrindo <jgorrindo at charter.net>
> To: Jonathan Sivier <jsivier at illinois.edu>
> Cc: Caller's discussion list <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Programming a Dance
> Message-ID: <476FE24D-11DF-4C5B-8DD9-A397E24F64AF at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> This is why they pay us the big bucks!
>
> My process is very much like Jonathan. My calling took a big leap forward
> when I started paying more attention to what I would say during the
> walk-thru, and practicing saying it out loud as concisely as possible (Lisa
> Greenleaf influence!).
>
> Jean
>
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:14 AM, Jonathan Sivier via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > I like to have a program of dances selected and laid out for my gigs.
> Of course I know that sometimes the prepared program has to be departed
> from, or completely replaced, but I like to at least start from the point
> of having a prepared program.
> >
> > For a typical contra dance I will spend an hour or so selecting dances
> and getting them in order. This may be a bit longer if I'm trying any new
> dances that need to be written up. Then I always practice all of the
> dances, even old familiar ones and especially any new ones. I practice
> both the walk-through and calling to music. This usually takes an hour or
> so as well. I usually do the preparation a day or two before the day of
> the dance. Extra time, and more advanced planning, may be needed if I'm
> coordinating with the band on any of the dances.
> >
> > The process is similar for English dances, but often takes more time.
> It also needs to be done well in advance so that the band can be informed
> of the dances.
> >
> > Jonathan
> > -----
> > Jonathan Sivier
> > Caller of Contra, Square, English and Early American Dances
> > jsivier AT illinois DOT edu
> > Dance Page: http://www.sivier.me/dance_leader.html
> > -----
> > Q: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
> > A: It depends on what dance you call!
> >
> > On 3/13/2018 12:58 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
> >> I am curious how much time you all plan programming a dance before
> arriving at a venue. If you do not preprogram, what is your approach for
> on the fly programming?
> >> Rich Sbardella
> >> Stafford, CT
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:30:50 -0400
> From: Donna Hunt <dhuntdancer at aol.com>
> To: callers at sharedweight.net
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID: <1622145d941-1bad-d984 at webjas-vad182.srv.aolmail.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> I've been using "walk'round" and it appears acceptable to the dancers.
> "Walk around" is already in the MWS jargon so I'm not creating new jargon.
>
> If I haven't been told not to use "gypsy" by the organizers then when I
> teach I say "gypsy walk'round" and which shoulder to use and how to do
> it. During the dance, I simply say "walk'round".and then never say "gypsy"
> again. That seems to anchor the experienced dancers to know what I mean
> and I teach to the new dancers so they understand what's expected of them.
>
> There are so many folks on either side of this argument that unfortunately
> the callers are stuck in the middle. Guilty if you do and if you don't.
> Some dance organizers won't take a stand, others say you must use it,
> others say you may not use it. There are still dancers who don't know what
> all the fuss is about. We all have heard of people from that ethnic group
> who are honored to have the term used (and loved) in our dance, just as
> we've heard that people are offended.
>
> Believe it or not, I recently received an anonymous written comment that
> some dancers were upset that another caller used "Men" and "Women" rather
> than "Gents" and "Ladies". Seems like folks are getting more and more
> intolerant if things are not just the way they want them to be.
>
>
> Donna Hunt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martha Wild via Callers <callers at lists.sharedweight.net>
> To: John W Gintell <john at gintell.org>
> Cc: Caller's discussion list <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Sent: Tue, Mar 13, 2018 4:36 pm
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
>
>
> I don?t think right shoulder round is going to make the grade. It?s
> descriptive, certainly, but it is long and unwieldy and can?t be easily
> shortened to anything recognizable as you eliminate calls in the dance. So,
> I?m sorry, but I?m not going to be using it.
> Martha
>
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2018, at 12:53 PM, John W Gintell via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>
> I think it would be best if only one term is used by callers at all
> dances. I think this quite important for beginners (not necessarily just
> the first time) who face enough confusion learning the terminology. One of
> the reasons why beginners don?t return is that it is too confusing.
>
>
> And I too like hearing right shoulder round because it is descriptive.
>
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2018, at 3:41 PM, Perry Shafran via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> I happen to *like* right shoulder round and have liked it ever since three
> callers at a dance event used it and it went rather flawlessly. I like the
> fact that it is actually descriptive in what you're doing. I think that
> the more we try to invent made-up words to try to make it sound fun and
> whimsey, the more we are likely to upset dancers who don't like that we're
> changing terms as it is. It may *sound* like a boring descriptor, but I
> feel my job as a caller is to describe the move and let the dancer decide
> what the mood is going to be for that individual dancer, based on their own
> feelings and their own connection to the music. So I plan to stick with
> "right shoulder round".
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 14:32:11 -0700
> From: Yoyo Zhou <yozhov at gmail.com>
> To: Martha Wild <mawild at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: John W Gintell <john at gintell.org>, "Caller's discussion list"
> <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID:
> <CAPNCXWiU-ezHO3h_kVOVQpBWXv_EnaZ75Dxq9YiX_TvSZeJWMw at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 1:07 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> > I don?t think right shoulder round is going to make the grade. It?s
> > descriptive, certainly, but it is long and unwieldy and can?t be easily
> > shortened to anything recognizable as you eliminate calls in the dance.
> So,
> > I?m sorry, but I?m not going to be using it.
> >
>
> Personally, I use "right shoulder turn" in teaching, and when prompting, I
> shorten it to "right shoulder". This is already shorter than "right
> allemande", which I don't think can get any shorter.
>
> Also personally, I would find it hard not to cringe when I hear "kipsie"
> (and, not being from New York, I would have never made the Poughkeepsie
> connection without the help of this list). I feel similarly about "jets" as
> a dance role replacement term. It's just a little too close and reminds you
> too much of what you're trying to avoid.
>
> How dancers respond to new terms is shaped by their attitudes, which can
> range from "I don't want this to change" to "I think this needed changing
> but the new thing is awkward" to "I like the new thing" to "I don't care
> either way" to "I'm new, what is this?" So different things may work for
> different crowds, though you'll hear a lot of feedback from a few vocal
> dancers, whereas most dancers I think are closest to feeling "I don't care
> either way". But the whole reason we're on this topic is that enough
> dancers want it to change.
>
> Yoyo Zhou
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:32:34 -0400
> From: Dugan Murphy <dugan at duganmurphy.com>
> To: Callers List Serve <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Programming a Dance
> Message-ID:
> <CAAwnfF59TQu+Tc2NFH5YO7Tr689yk-wRWDVFwb_
> GzkUYE+HHuw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi, Rich,
>
> I come to almost all of my gigs with a program prepared in advance. For
> each dance slot, I have multiple choices of dance compositions that all
> fulfill the same purpose (same key figure, same type of progression, same
> type of orientation, etc.), from which I choose depending on what I think
> the crowd will enjoy most. I usually leave two slots open for on-the-fly
> choices of glossary dances that I can call without a walk-through.
>
> When I come to an event without a program already prepared, it is usually
> because I anticipate moments when my choices of dance compositions may be
> influenced by an insufficient number dancers for a contra line.
>
> Dugan Murphy
> Portland, Maine
> dugan at duganmurphy.com
> www.DuganMurphy.com
> www.PortlandIntownContraDance.com
> www.NufSed.consulting
>
>
> > From: Rich Sbardella <richsbardella at gmail.com>
> > To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers at sharedweight.net>
> > Subject: [Callers] Programming a Dance
> >
> > I am curious how much time you all plan programming a dance before
> arriving
> > at a venue. If you do not preprogram, what is your approach for on the
> fly
> > programming?
> > Rich Sbardella
> > Stafford, CT
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 14:48:25 -0700
> From: Russell Frank <russell.knarf at gmail.com>
> To: Yoyo Zhou <yozhov at gmail.com>
> Cc: Martha Wild <mawild at sbcglobal.net>, Caller's discussion list
> <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID: <0AEF3768-4395-43C1-B94E-A62832887CD8 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I agree, but the problem is more serious than ?it?s just too close to
> gypsy?. If we?re not going to use ?gypsy? because it?s an ethnic slur,
> then we have to avoid obvious code words for the ethnic slur. There?s a
> long history of slightly altering socially unacceptable race and ethnic
> slurs, and pretending that this makes it all right. It doesn?t make it all
> right, period.
>
> The fact that we really don?t have any ill intent is irrelevant; we didn?t
> have any ill intent when we were using the word gypsy either.
>
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 2:32 PM, Yoyo Zhou via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 1:07 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers at lists.sharedweight.net>>
> wrote:
> > I don?t think right shoulder round is going to make the grade. It?s
> descriptive, certainly, but it is long and unwieldy and can?t be easily
> shortened to anything recognizable as you eliminate calls in the dance. So,
> I?m sorry, but I?m not going to be using it.
> >
> > Personally, I use "right shoulder turn" in teaching, and when prompting,
> I shorten it to "right shoulder". This is already shorter than "right
> allemande", which I don't think can get any shorter.
> >
> > Also personally, I would find it hard not to cringe when I hear "kipsie"
> (and, not being from New York, I would have never made the Poughkeepsie
> connection without the help of this list). I feel similarly about "jets" as
> a dance role replacement term. It's just a little too close and reminds you
> too much of what you're trying to avoid.
> >
> > How dancers respond to new terms is shaped by their attitudes, which can
> range from "I don't want this to change" to "I think this needed changing
> but the new thing is awkward" to "I like the new thing" to "I don't care
> either way" to "I'm new, what is this?" So different things may work for
> different crowds, though you'll hear a lot of feedback from a few vocal
> dancers, whereas most dancers I think are closest to feeling "I don't care
> either way". But the whole reason we're on this topic is that enough
> dancers want it to change.
> >
> > Yoyo Zhou
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 18:03:52 -0400
> From: Elizabeth Szekeres <eszekeres53 at gmail.com>
> To: Russell Frank <russell.knarf at gmail.com>
> Cc: Yoyo Zhou <yozhov at gmail.com>, "Caller's discussion list"
> <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID:
> <CACQ97s_e1bviEU+Z_6yWqy907+ayK+N5=nfHW=YOeDzNuVxThw at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi, Folks,
> George Marshall invented the term "Two Eyed Turn" which really means a lot
> to me. It's short, it's descriptive, and it captures the eyes thing that
> was always so cool about the Gypsy...
> My two cents worth.
> Elizabeth
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Russell Frank via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> > I agree, but the problem is more serious than ?it?s just too close to
> > gypsy?. If we?re not going to use ?gypsy? because it?s an ethnic slur,
> > then we have to avoid obvious code words for the ethnic slur. There?s a
> > long history of slightly altering socially unacceptable race and ethnic
> > slurs, and pretending that this makes it all right. It doesn?t make it
> all
> > right, period.
> >
> > The fact that we really don?t have any ill intent is irrelevant; we
> didn?t
> > have any ill intent when we were using the word gypsy either.
> >
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 2:32 PM, Yoyo Zhou via Callers <
> > callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 1:07 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
> > callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> >> I don?t think right shoulder round is going to make the grade. It?s
> >> descriptive, certainly, but it is long and unwieldy and can?t be easily
> >> shortened to anything recognizable as you eliminate calls in the dance.
> So,
> >> I?m sorry, but I?m not going to be using it.
> >>
> >
> > Personally, I use "right shoulder turn" in teaching, and when prompting,
> I
> > shorten it to "right shoulder". This is already shorter than "right
> > allemande", which I don't think can get any shorter.
> >
> > Also personally, I would find it hard not to cringe when I hear "kipsie"
> > (and, not being from New York, I would have never made the Poughkeepsie
> > connection without the help of this list). I feel similarly about "jets"
> as
> > a dance role replacement term. It's just a little too close and reminds
> you
> > too much of what you're trying to avoid.
> >
> > How dancers respond to new terms is shaped by their attitudes, which can
> > range from "I don't want this to change" to "I think this needed changing
> > but the new thing is awkward" to "I like the new thing" to "I don't care
> > either way" to "I'm new, what is this?" So different things may work for
> > different crowds, though you'll hear a lot of feedback from a few vocal
> > dancers, whereas most dancers I think are closest to feeling "I don't
> care
> > either way". But the whole reason we're on this topic is that enough
> > dancers want it to change.
> >
> > Yoyo Zhou
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 18:04:21 -0400
> From: Bob Peterson <bob at contracorner.com>
> To: Caller's discussion list <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Programming a Dance
> Message-ID: <295E8CB9-BBB3-49D6-AD5D-622538D06559 at contracorner.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> As a new caller I spend way too many hours preparing. I used to start
> weeks in advance, just so I could read all the choreography books I have.
> Now I?m down to 1 or 2 weeks. LOL. Where I?m spending most of my time
> nowadays is developing a sense of ?story? and ?biorhythm? to the program,
> and not just a logical progression of complexity. I look forward to getting
> it down to an hour!
>
> By now I have been through my library enough and called enough that I have
> a couple special folders of fallback easy/fun/low-turnout dances to rely on
> when I need them. Having fallbacks makes programming simpler (thus faster)
> so I don?t need an absurd flowchart. (Yes, I tried that once.)
>
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 17:28, Jean Gibson-Gorrindo via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers at lists.sharedweight.net>>
> wrote:
> >
> > My calling took a big leap forward when I started paying more attention
> to what I would say during the walk-thru, and practicing saying it out loud
> as concisely as possible (Lisa Greenleaf influence!).
>
> I do this as well. Saying the teaching aloud, alone, helps me test and
> pare the words down. Walking a couple positions as well helps me aware of
> the dancer perspectives as well.
>
> \Bob Peterson
> http://contracorner.com/caller/ <http://contracorner.com/caller/>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 18:15:22 -0400
> From: Mary Collins <nativedae at gmail.com>
> To: Bob Peterson <bob at contracorner.com>
> Cc: "Caller's discussion list" <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Programming a Dance
> Message-ID:
> <CAB0qS-yBtp1uC90F6LYjWHKOL3LLzhGZnhVU
> ttBo_2zG6SMG1g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I usually start thinking about the program as soon as I book. Then as far
> out as two weeks I pull and practice dances, determine suitable music,
> refine a day or two before and then once at the dance change the whole
> program. Lol. Not really but once I get there I end up changing order or
> some dances. I've been pulling my similar yet substituting dances itn
> advance lately too.
>
> On Mar 13, 2018 6:04 PM, "Bob Peterson via Callers" <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> > As a new caller I spend way too many hours preparing. I used to start
> > weeks in advance, just so I could read all the choreography books I have.
> > Now I?m down to 1 or 2 weeks. LOL. Where I?m spending most of my time
> > nowadays is developing a sense of ?story? and ?biorhythm? to the program,
> > and not just a logical progression of complexity. I look forward to
> getting
> > it down to an hour!
> >
> > By now I have been through my library enough and called enough that I
> have
> > a couple special folders of fallback easy/fun/low-turnout dances to rely
> on
> > when I need them. Having fallbacks makes programming simpler (thus
> faster)
> > so I don?t need an absurd flowchart. (Yes, I tried that once.)
> >
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 17:28, Jean Gibson-Gorrindo via Callers <
> > callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > My calling took a big leap forward when I started paying more attention
> to
> > what I would say during the walk-thru, and practicing saying it out loud
> as
> > concisely as possible (Lisa Greenleaf influence!).
> >
> >
> > I do this as well. Saying the teaching aloud, alone, helps me test and
> > pare the words down. Walking a couple positions as well helps me aware of
> > the dancer perspectives as well.
> >
> > \Bob Peterson
> > http://contracorner.com/caller/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 18:18:10 -0400
> From: Mary Collins <nativedae at gmail.com>
> To: Bob Peterson <bob at contracorner.com>
> Cc: "Caller's discussion list" <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Programming a Dance
> Message-ID:
> <CAB0qS-zHrpO3K_k6+EwG3eo8Gxq7odAuOx0hdMnDgmNB7L0
> StQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I should addend my previous response to say I approach a dance preparation
> as I do a horse show. That's how my mind works. There is a plan and steps
> to it.
>
> Mary
>
> On Mar 13, 2018 6:15 PM, "Mary Collins" <nativedae at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I usually start thinking about the program as soon as I book. Then as far
> out as two weeks I pull and practice dances, determine suitable music,
> refine a day or two before and then once at the dance change the whole
> program. Lol. Not really but once I get there I end up changing order or
> some dances. I've been pulling my similar yet substituting dances itn
> advance lately too.
>
> On Mar 13, 2018 6:04 PM, "Bob Peterson via Callers" <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> > As a new caller I spend way too many hours preparing. I used to start
> > weeks in advance, just so I could read all the choreography books I have.
> > Now I?m down to 1 or 2 weeks. LOL. Where I?m spending most of my time
> > nowadays is developing a sense of ?story? and ?biorhythm? to the program,
> > and not just a logical progression of complexity. I look forward to
> getting
> > it down to an hour!
> >
> > By now I have been through my library enough and called enough that I
> have
> > a couple special folders of fallback easy/fun/low-turnout dances to rely
> on
> > when I need them. Having fallbacks makes programming simpler (thus
> faster)
> > so I don?t need an absurd flowchart. (Yes, I tried that once.)
> >
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 17:28, Jean Gibson-Gorrindo via Callers <
> > callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > My calling took a big leap forward when I started paying more attention
> to
> > what I would say during the walk-thru, and practicing saying it out loud
> as
> > concisely as possible (Lisa Greenleaf influence!).
> >
> >
> > I do this as well. Saying the teaching aloud, alone, helps me test and
> > pare the words down. Walking a couple positions as well helps me aware of
> > the dancer perspectives as well.
> >
> > \Bob Peterson
> > http://contracorner.com/caller/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:25:17 -0500
> From: "Linda S. Mrosko" <elmerosko at gmail.com>
> To: Rich Sbardella <richsbardella at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Caller's discussion list" <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] Programming a Dance
> Message-ID:
> <CAHC5BqfEYrP_BssUKAgAF1dz9J5gGZ5owua9YMf5uj
> pWb29uug at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Being in charge of a monthly "open band open mic dance," I rarely prepare
> -- but I usually have at least a couple of dances in mind, just in case. I
> never know if another caller will show up or if a room full of newcomers
> will show up. It's a small venue and the regular dancers are forgiving.
>
> For a regular dance, I do like to have a program and start with at least a
> sketch of a plan a week in advance. If it's a band I haven't worked with,
> ,I try to have a plan to them at least a week ahead of the dance. For our
> regular musicians, all they want to know is where the Balances are, are
> there any Do-Si-Dos (usually a jig), Down the Hall & Back or Hey, and
> whether I'm using a Chestnut with its own tune.
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 12:58 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> > I am curious how much time you all plan programming a dance before
> > arriving at a venue. If you do not preprogram, what is your approach for
> > on the fly programming?
> > Rich Sbardella
> > Stafford, CT
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Looking forward,Linda S. Mrosko*
>
> *102 Mitchell Drive*
>
> *Temple, Texas 76501*
>
> *(903) 292-3713 (Cell)*
> *(903) 603-9955 (Skype)*
> *contradancetx.com <http://www.contradancetx.com>*
>
> *www.zazzle.com/fuzzycozy* <http://www.zazzle.com/fuzzycozy*> (Dance
> buttons, t-shirts, & more)*
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:42:04 -0500
> From: "Linda S. Mrosko" <elmerosko at gmail.com>
> To: Martha Wild <mawild at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: "Caller's discussion list" <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID:
> <CAHC5BqdiDWHyALFWv8swDHvcUMRYqmMXwsTH2BJOtEaxYSAaZA at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> When I introduce the move in Texas, I just say "do a small 'g' gypsy" and
> then it gives my license to still say gypsy. But a survey of most Texas
> dancers -- they prefer "gypsy". It's a verb, not a noun/pronoun
> (whatever).
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> > Interesting discussion on the Portland Country Dance Community Facebook
> > page. Lots of great suggestions. A lot of people really don?t like ?right
> > shoulder round? (I?m one of them). I tried one of their suggestions last
> > night - Kipsey - and it worked amazingly well. Easy to say, particularly
> > when you are cutting down the calling to one word (what do you do with
> > right shoulder round? shoulder? Ick.) And everyone can hear the
> similarity
> > and knows what to do. I had tried spiral for a while and people just
> seemed
> > confused. The other suggestion that I noticed today was from Susan
> Michaels
> > - ?look-see? That has the virtue of a similar rhyming two syllable call,
> > and it?s upbeat and fun and has emphasis on facing the other person.
> Check
> > out the discussion. https://www.facebook.com/
> groups/62950211264/permalink/
> > 10155943260651265/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Looking forward,Linda S. Mrosko*
>
> *102 Mitchell Drive*
>
> *Temple, Texas 76501*
>
> *(903) 292-3713 (Cell)*
> *(903) 603-9955 (Skype)*
> *contradancetx.com <http://www.contradancetx.com>*
>
> *www.zazzle.com/fuzzycozy* <http://www.zazzle.com/fuzzycozy*> (Dance
> buttons, t-shirts, & more)*
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 22:53:32 -0500
> From: Cara Sawyer <cvsawyer at uwalumni.com>
> To: Caller's discussion list <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID: <A1E27545-92ED-43EA-8E70-D613AAF89F65 at uwalumni.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Jo Mortland of the Chicago Barn Dance group here came up with Dipsy. Nice
> and silly and sounds similar enough it requires no explanation. Sort of
> like Kipsy!
>
> Guess what they say about great minds is true!
>
> Sent using two thumbs
>
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 14:41, Perry Shafran via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > I happen to *like* right shoulder round and have liked it ever since
> three callers at a dance event used it and it went rather flawlessly. I
> like the fact that it is actually descriptive in what you're doing. I
> think that the more we try to invent made-up words to try to make it sound
> fun and whimsey, the more we are likely to upset dancers who don't like
> that we're changing terms as it is. It may *sound* like a boring
> descriptor, but I feel my job as a caller is to describe the move and let
> the dancer decide what the mood is going to be for that individual dancer,
> based on their own feelings and their own connection to the music. So I
> plan to stick with "right shoulder round".
> >
> > Perry
> >
> >
> > From: Martha Wild via Callers <callers at lists.sharedweight.net>
> > To: Caller's discussion list <callers at sharedweight.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 2:03 PM
> > Subject: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> >
> > Interesting discussion on the Portland Country Dance Community Facebook
> page. Lots of great suggestions. A lot of people really don?t like ?right
> shoulder round? (I?m one of them). I tried one of their suggestions last
> night - Kipsey - and it worked amazingly well. Easy to say, particularly
> when you are cutting down the calling to one word (what do you do with
> right shoulder round? shoulder? Ick.) And everyone can hear the similarity
> and knows what to do. I had tried spiral for a while and people just seemed
> confused. The other suggestion that I noticed today was from Susan Michaels
> - ?look-see? That has the virtue of a similar rhyming two syllable call,
> and it?s upbeat and fun and has emphasis on facing the other person. Check
> out the discussion. https://www.facebook.com/groups/62950211264/permalink/
> 10155943260651265/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 03:31:09 -0400
> From: Andrea Nettleton <twirly-girl at bellsouth.net>
> To: Cara Sawyer <cvsawyer at uwalumni.com>
> Cc: Caller's discussion list <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID: <F71EAF09-2032-4BAB-A32E-96D11961F973 at bellsouth.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi everyone,
> Here we are once more, sharing our likes and dislikes, our preferred
> term (I?ve shared and still like whimsy, but look-see got my attention) of
> the moment. But why are we circling this wagon again? Though everyone is
> polite, and thankfully we haven?t begun to rehash whether gypsy is a slur
> or not, I also see no fresh approach, no new insight, to clarify for one
> and all a single, simple, right answer. Don?t get me wrong, I?m not sure
> there is one. But I?m positive we won?t get there by having more of the
> same back and forth we?ve already had. While I R eyelemande my neighbor,
> you?re going to R shoulder round yours, and as far as I can tell, that?s
> where we are and will be. Could we please maybe back away from the
> specifics a bit, and see if we can generate a new way of framing the
> debate? And if we can?t, just let the experiment continue without
> rehashing the already well trodden ground?
> Thanks,
> Andrea
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:53 PM, Cara Sawyer via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > Jo Mortland of the Chicago Barn Dance group here came up with Dipsy.
> Nice and silly and sounds similar enough it requires no explanation. Sort
> of like Kipsy!
> >
> > Guess what they say about great minds is true!
> >
> > Sent using two thumbs
> >
> >> On Mar 13, 2018, at 14:41, Perry Shafran via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I happen to *like* right shoulder round and have liked it ever since
> three callers at a dance event used it and it went rather flawlessly. I
> like the fact that it is actually descriptive in what you're doing. I
> think that the more we try to invent made-up words to try to make it sound
> fun and whimsey, the more we are likely to upset dancers who don't like
> that we're changing terms as it is. It may *sound* like a boring
> descriptor, but I feel my job as a caller is to describe the move and let
> the dancer decide what the mood is going to be for that individual dancer,
> based on their own feelings and their own connection to the music. So I
> plan to stick with "right shoulder round".
> >>
> >> Perry
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Martha Wild via Callers <callers at lists.sharedweight.net>
> >> To: Caller's discussion list <callers at sharedweight.net>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 2:03 PM
> >> Subject: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> >>
> >> Interesting discussion on the Portland Country Dance Community Facebook
> page. Lots of great suggestions. A lot of people really don?t like ?right
> shoulder round? (I?m one of them). I tried one of their suggestions last
> night - Kipsey - and it worked amazingly well. Easy to say, particularly
> when you are cutting down the calling to one word (what do you do with
> right shoulder round? shoulder? Ick.) And everyone can hear the similarity
> and knows what to do. I had tried spiral for a while and people just seemed
> confused. The other suggestion that I noticed today was from Susan Michaels
> - ?look-see? That has the virtue of a similar rhyming two syllable call,
> and it?s upbeat and fun and has emphasis on facing the other person. Check
> out the discussion. https://www.facebook.com/groups/62950211264/permalink/
> 10155943260651265/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> List Name: Callers mailing list
> >> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> >> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> List Name: Callers mailing list
> >> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> >> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 10:52:41 -0400
> From: Bob Hofkin <bhofkin at middleJ.com>
> To: Caller's discussion list <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID: <37278e7a-22a8-d55c-0bd2-06bb5f064c4a at middleJ.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Andrea,
>
> The discussions make it clear that: (1) there is a need to use
> terminology other than "gypsy," at least in some venues, and (2) there
> is no generally-agreed substitute term.
>
> A lot of callers see that as an impediment to clear and concise
> teaching/calling. I have certainly experienced confusion and annoyance
> as a dancer. I believe that the folk process will provide a solution,
> but I appreciate the efforts to accelerate what could otherwise take
> many years to resolve.
>
> I appreciate the reports of what different callers are trying and their
> degree of success. At the same time, it makes a lot of sense to avoid
> rehashing the same arguments, as you suggest. Right now, we're in an
> empirical phase--trial and error--and rapid dissemination of results
> seems like the way to go. If that process suggests a few good
> candidates, it might be time to debate their merits.
>
> Bob
>
> On 3/14/2018 03:31, Andrea Nettleton via Callers wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> > Here we are once more, sharing our likes and dislikes, our
> preferred term (I?ve shared and still like whimsy, but look-see got my
> attention) of the moment. But why are we circling this wagon again? Though
> everyone is polite, and thankfully we haven?t begun to rehash whether gypsy
> is a slur or not, I also see no fresh approach, no new insight, to clarify
> for one and all a single, simple, right answer. Don?t get me wrong, I?m
> not sure there is one. But I?m positive we won?t get there by having more
> of the same back and forth we?ve already had. While I R eyelemande my
> neighbor, you?re going to R shoulder round yours, and as far as I can tell,
> that?s where we are and will be. Could we please maybe back away from the
> specifics a bit, and see if we can generate a new way of framing the
> debate? And if we can?t, just let the experiment continue without
> rehashing the already well trodden ground?
> > Thanks,
> > Andrea
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:53 PM, Cara Sawyer via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Jo Mortland of the Chicago Barn Dance group here came up with Dipsy.
> Nice and silly and sounds similar enough it requires no explanation. Sort
> of like Kipsy!
> >>
> >> Guess what they say about great minds is true!
> >>
> >> Sent using two thumbs
> >>
> >>> On Mar 13, 2018, at 14:41, Perry Shafran via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I happen to *like* right shoulder round and have liked it ever since
> three callers at a dance event used it and it went rather flawlessly. I
> like the fact that it is actually descriptive in what you're doing. I
> think that the more we try to invent made-up words to try to make it sound
> fun and whimsey, the more we are likely to upset dancers who don't like
> that we're changing terms as it is. It may *sound* like a boring
> descriptor, but I feel my job as a caller is to describe the move and let
> the dancer decide what the mood is going to be for that individual dancer,
> based on their own feelings and their own connection to the music. So I
> plan to stick with "right shoulder round".
> >>>
> >>> Perry
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Martha Wild via Callers <callers at lists.sharedweight.net>
> >>> To: Caller's discussion list <callers at sharedweight.net>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 2:03 PM
> >>> Subject: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> >>>
> >>> Interesting discussion on the Portland Country Dance Community
> Facebook page. Lots of great suggestions. A lot of people really don?t like
> ?right shoulder round? (I?m one of them). I tried one of their suggestions
> last night - Kipsey - and it worked amazingly well. Easy to say,
> particularly when you are cutting down the calling to one word (what do you
> do with right shoulder round? shoulder? Ick.) And everyone can hear the
> similarity and knows what to do. I had tried spiral for a while and people
> just seemed confused. The other suggestion that I noticed today was from
> Susan Michaels - ?look-see? That has the virtue of a similar rhyming two
> syllable call, and it?s upbeat and fun and has emphasis on facing the other
> person. Check out the discussion. https://www.facebook.com/
> groups/62950211264/permalink/10155943260651265/
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> List Name: Callers mailing list
> >>> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> >>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.
> net/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> List Name: Callers mailing list
> >>> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> >>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.
> net/
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> List Name: Callers mailing list
> >> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> >> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 15:12:30 +0000
> From: Angela DeCarlis <aedecarlis at gmail.com>
> To: Bob Hofkin <bhofkin at middlej.com>
> Cc: "Caller's discussion list" <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID:
> <CA+h6_BZEoAg_uJHA52U6zKbyP75MzWudhJNc3r7a2P
> MUHbpD-A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Quick note to all: while "Right Shoulder 'Round" seems like a mouthful at
> four syllables, the words are easily spoken in two beats of music (or two
> and a half depending how you count). It takes only half a beat more to say
> than common moves like "Balance and Swing" or "Allemande Left," and takes
> exactly the same amount of time to say as "Go Forward and Back." Common
> phrases like "With Your Neighbor Dosido" take nearly twice as long to say.
>
> So before you judge a phrase as unwieldy, give it a few test runs by
> yourself, to a beat or to recorded music. :)
>
> Angela
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 10:53 AM Bob Hofkin via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> > Andrea,
> >
> > The discussions make it clear that: (1) there is a need to use
> > terminology other than "gypsy," at least in some venues, and (2) there
> > is no generally-agreed substitute term.
> >
> > A lot of callers see that as an impediment to clear and concise
> > teaching/calling. I have certainly experienced confusion and annoyance
> > as a dancer. I believe that the folk process will provide a solution,
> > but I appreciate the efforts to accelerate what could otherwise take
> > many years to resolve.
> >
> > I appreciate the reports of what different callers are trying and their
> > degree of success. At the same time, it makes a lot of sense to avoid
> > rehashing the same arguments, as you suggest. Right now, we're in an
> > empirical phase--trial and error--and rapid dissemination of results
> > seems like the way to go. If that process suggests a few good
> > candidates, it might be time to debate their merits.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > On 3/14/2018 03:31, Andrea Nettleton via Callers wrote:
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > Here we are once more, sharing our likes and dislikes, our
> > preferred term (I?ve shared and still like whimsy, but look-see got my
> > attention) of the moment. But why are we circling this wagon again?
> Though
> > everyone is polite, and thankfully we haven?t begun to rehash whether
> gypsy
> > is a slur or not, I also see no fresh approach, no new insight, to
> clarify
> > for one and all a single, simple, right answer. Don?t get me wrong, I?m
> > not sure there is one. But I?m positive we won?t get there by having
> more
> > of the same back and forth we?ve already had. While I R eyelemande my
> > neighbor, you?re going to R shoulder round yours, and as far as I can
> tell,
> > that?s where we are and will be. Could we please maybe back away from
> the
> > specifics a bit, and see if we can generate a new way of framing the
> > debate? And if we can?t, just let the experiment continue without
> > rehashing the already well trodden ground?
> > > Thanks,
> > > Andrea
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >> On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:53 PM, Cara Sawyer via Callers <
> > callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Jo Mortland of the Chicago Barn Dance group here came up with Dipsy.
> > Nice and silly and sounds similar enough it requires no explanation. Sort
> > of like Kipsy!
> > >>
> > >> Guess what they say about great minds is true!
> > >>
> > >> Sent using two thumbs
> > >>
> > >>> On Mar 13, 2018, at 14:41, Perry Shafran via Callers <
> > callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> I happen to *like* right shoulder round and have liked it ever since
> > three callers at a dance event used it and it went rather flawlessly. I
> > like the fact that it is actually descriptive in what you're doing. I
> > think that the more we try to invent made-up words to try to make it
> sound
> > fun and whimsey, the more we are likely to upset dancers who don't like
> > that we're changing terms as it is. It may *sound* like a boring
> > descriptor, but I feel my job as a caller is to describe the move and let
> > the dancer decide what the mood is going to be for that individual
> dancer,
> > based on their own feelings and their own connection to the music. So I
> > plan to stick with "right shoulder round".
> > >>>
> > >>> Perry
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> From: Martha Wild via Callers <callers at lists.sharedweight.net>
> > >>> To: Caller's discussion list <callers at sharedweight.net>
> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 2:03 PM
> > >>> Subject: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> > >>>
> > >>> Interesting discussion on the Portland Country Dance Community
> > Facebook page. Lots of great suggestions. A lot of people really don?t
> like
> > ?right shoulder round? (I?m one of them). I tried one of their
> suggestions
> > last night - Kipsey - and it worked amazingly well. Easy to say,
> > particularly when you are cutting down the calling to one word (what do
> you
> > do with right shoulder round? shoulder? Ick.) And everyone can hear the
> > similarity and knows what to do. I had tried spiral for a while and
> people
> > just seemed confused. The other suggestion that I noticed today was from
> > Susan Michaels - ?look-see? That has the virtue of a similar rhyming two
> > syllable call, and it?s upbeat and fun and has emphasis on facing the
> other
> > person. Check out the discussion.
> > https://www.facebook.com/groups/62950211264/permalink/10155943260651265/
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> List Name: Callers mailing list
> > >>> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > >>> Archives:
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> List Name: Callers mailing list
> > >>> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > >>> Archives:
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> List Name: Callers mailing list
> > >> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > >> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.
> net/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.
> net/
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 12:03:17 -0400
> From: Don Veino <sharedweight_net at veino.com>
> To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID:
> <CAAJTti+7T8BnKcB=5CRtbF-z5BtWY_yP1qYe6OMex77XkOv_2Q@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I've successfully tried both Glance (around) and Swoop (around) with
> dancers. Several have told me they really liked Swoop and thought it was
> the best alternative they've heard so far (and I've seen folks having fun
> making "wings" on the floor as they do it).
>
> A caution on terms that explicitly use "eye" in them: we have a regular
> dancer who is blind and that person and their friends are strongly offended
> by those terms. As eye locking is styling and not the essential motion,
> it's not necessary to the call.
>
> Also, on some of these sound-alike terms... if I were to call you a
> "plucking gerk" would you not be offended just the same? I submit for the
> same reason that a replacement term we settle on should not sound like the
> original term we're trying to replace. Similar metrics, sure - but not a
> minor tweak of the original sound. For this reason I've never tried making
> "Glance" into "Glancey."
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 10:52 AM, Bob Hofkin via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > [snip]
>
> >
> > I appreciate the reports of what different callers are trying and their
> > degree of success. At the same time, it makes a lot of sense to avoid
> > rehashing the same arguments, as you suggest. Right now, we're in an
> > empirical phase--trial and error--and rapid dissemination of results
> seems
> > like the way to go. If that process suggests a few good candidates, it
> > might be time to debate their merits.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > <https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/>
> >
>
> [snip]
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 14:35:53 -0400
> From: Cheryl Joyal <clmjoyal at gmail.com>
> To: Angela DeCarlis <aedecarlis at gmail.com>
> Cc: Bob Hofkin <bhofkin at middlej.com>, Caller's discussion list
> <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID: <022C2940-40F6-4370-B24B-5C24E071169F at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I first heard Dugan Murphy use ?right shoulder round? and it worked well.
> I have adopted it and it is well received and does work well for me calling
> wise
>
> Cheryl Joyal
> 630-667-3284
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 14, 2018, at 11:12 AM, Angela DeCarlis via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Quick note to all: while "Right Shoulder 'Round" seems like a mouthful at
> four syllables, the words are easily spoken in two beats of music (or two
> and a half depending how you count). It takes only half a beat more to say
> than common moves like "Balance and Swing" or "Allemande Left," and takes
> exactly the same amount of time to say as "Go Forward and Back." Common
> phrases like "With Your Neighbor Dosido" take nearly twice as long to say.
>
> So before you judge a phrase as unwieldy, give it a few test runs by
> yourself, to a beat or to recorded music. :)
>
> Angela
>
> > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 10:53 AM Bob Hofkin via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > Andrea,
> >
> > The discussions make it clear that: (1) there is a need to use
> > terminology other than "gypsy," at least in some venues, and (2) there
> > is no generally-agreed substitute term.
> >
> > A lot of callers see that as an impediment to clear and concise
> > teaching/calling. I have certainly experienced confusion and annoyance
> > as a dancer. I believe that the folk process will provide a solution,
> > but I appreciate the efforts to accelerate what could otherwise take
> > many years to resolve.
> >
> > I appreciate the reports of what different callers are trying and their
> > degree of success. At the same time, it makes a lot of sense to avoid
> > rehashing the same arguments, as you suggest. Right now, we're in an
> > empirical phase--trial and error--and rapid dissemination of results
> > seems like the way to go. If that process suggests a few good
> > candidates, it might be time to debate their merits.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > On 3/14/2018 03:31, Andrea Nettleton via Callers wrote:
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > Here we are once more, sharing our likes and dislikes, our
> preferred term (I?ve shared and still like whimsy, but look-see got my
> attention) of the moment. But why are we circling this wagon again? Though
> everyone is polite, and thankfully we haven?t begun to rehash whether gypsy
> is a slur or not, I also see no fresh approach, no new insight, to clarify
> for one and all a single, simple, right answer. Don?t get me wrong, I?m
> not sure there is one. But I?m positive we won?t get there by having more
> of the same back and forth we?ve already had. While I R eyelemande my
> neighbor, you?re going to R shoulder round yours, and as far as I can tell,
> that?s where we are and will be. Could we please maybe back away from the
> specifics a bit, and see if we can generate a new way of framing the
> debate? And if we can?t, just let the experiment continue without
> rehashing the already well trodden ground?
> > > Thanks,
> > > Andrea
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >> On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:53 PM, Cara Sawyer via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Jo Mortland of the Chicago Barn Dance group here came up with Dipsy.
> Nice and silly and sounds similar enough it requires no explanation. Sort
> of like Kipsy!
> > >>
> > >> Guess what they say about great minds is true!
> > >>
> > >> Sent using two thumbs
> > >>
> > >>> On Mar 13, 2018, at 14:41, Perry Shafran via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> I happen to *like* right shoulder round and have liked it ever since
> three callers at a dance event used it and it went rather flawlessly. I
> like the fact that it is actually descriptive in what you're doing. I
> think that the more we try to invent made-up words to try to make it sound
> fun and whimsey, the more we are likely to upset dancers who don't like
> that we're changing terms as it is. It may *sound* like a boring
> descriptor, but I feel my job as a caller is to describe the move and let
> the dancer decide what the mood is going to be for that individual dancer,
> based on their own feelings and their own connection to the music. So I
> plan to stick with "right shoulder round".
> > >>>
> > >>> Perry
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> From: Martha Wild via Callers <callers at lists.sharedweight.net>
> > >>> To: Caller's discussion list <callers at sharedweight.net>
> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 2:03 PM
> > >>> Subject: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> > >>>
> > >>> Interesting discussion on the Portland Country Dance Community
> Facebook page. Lots of great suggestions. A lot of people really don?t like
> ?right shoulder round? (I?m one of them). I tried one of their suggestions
> last night - Kipsey - and it worked amazingly well. Easy to say,
> particularly when you are cutting down the calling to one word (what do you
> do with right shoulder round? shoulder? Ick.) And everyone can hear the
> similarity and knows what to do. I had tried spiral for a while and people
> just seemed confused. The other suggestion that I noticed today was from
> Susan Michaels - ?look-see? That has the virtue of a similar rhyming two
> syllable call, and it?s upbeat and fun and has emphasis on facing the other
> person. Check out the discussion. https://www.facebook.com/
> groups/62950211264/permalink/10155943260651265/
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> List Name: Callers mailing list
> > >>> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > >>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.
> net/
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> List Name: Callers mailing list
> > >>> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > >>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.
> net/
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> List Name: Callers mailing list
> > >> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > >> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.
> net/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.
> net/
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > List Name: Callers mailing list
> > List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 18:41:52 +0000
> From: Amy Wimmer <amywimmer at gmail.com>
> To: Don Veino <sharedweight_net at veino.com>
> Cc: "Caller's discussion list" <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID:
> <CAPZbK+fns6+4Ufu9sVSA-M6SQukC3G+Qn0xsADxUrvbe1yV3CQ@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> For what it's worth, I danced a "right shoulder 'round" (so far it's what
> I've been using) with someone who remarked, "I really dislike that term. It
> makes me think of a side of beef." OOF! Now that's all I can think of when
> I hear the term.
>
> I like "swoop." This is the first time I've heard that proposed. It's
> short, sweet and descriptive. I may give that a test whirl. I can imagine
> the wings coming out in our community.
>
> I've heard "pixie" and don't care for it. It seems too cute, too close to
> gypsy, and isn't descriptive. I know many terms are not descriptive, but
> this doesn't have anything going for it, in my book, except it's short and
> easy to say.
>
> I appreciate knowing what has worked in other communities, and as long as
> the conversation stays constructive and informative I am all for it.
>
> -Amy
>
> On Mar 14, 2018 9:04 AM, "Don Veino via Callers" <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> I've successfully tried both Glance (around) and Swoop (around) with
> dancers. Several have told me they really liked Swoop and thought it was
> the best alternative they've heard so far (and I've seen folks having fun
> making "wings" on the floor as they do it).
>
> A caution on terms that explicitly use "eye" in them: we have a regular
> dancer who is blind and that person and their friends are strongly offended
> by those terms. As eye locking is styling and not the essential motion,
> it's not necessary to the call.
>
> Also, on some of these sound-alike terms... if I were to call you a
> "plucking gerk" would you not be offended just the same? I submit for the
> same reason that a replacement term we settle on should not sound like the
> original term we're trying to replace. Similar metrics, sure - but not a
> minor tweak of the original sound. For this reason I've never tried making
> "Glance" into "Glancey."
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 10:52 AM, Bob Hofkin via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > [snip]
>
> >
> > I appreciate the reports of what different callers are trying and their
> > degree of success. At the same time, it makes a lot of sense to avoid
> > rehashing the same arguments, as you suggest. Right now, we're in an
> > empirical phase--trial and error--and rapid dissemination of results
> seems
> > like the way to go. If that process suggests a few good candidates, it
> > might be time to debate their merits.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > <https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/>
> >
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 14:10:09 -0500
> From: "Linda S. Mrosko" <elmerosko at gmail.com>
> To: Cheryl Joyal <clmjoyal at gmail.com>
> Cc: Angela DeCarlis <aedecarlis at gmail.com>, "Caller's discussion
> list" <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID:
> <CAHC5BqdHc+Z48ZpJEmVn9=FtBtyFL_zQW2wfrJFbH3Di__BN8A at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Perhaps someone, not me, should draw up a map of the term used in place of
> "gypsy" in the various parts of the country so traveling callers will know
> what to us
> ??
> e
> ? if they call there.?
> ?
> ??
> ? The map can also be handed out to traveling dancers to prepare them in
> advance.?
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Looking forward,Linda S. Mrosko*
>
> *102 Mitchell Drive*
>
> *Temple, Texas 76501*
>
> *(903) 292-3713 (Cell)*
> *(903) 603-9955 (Skype)*
> *contradancetx.com <http://www.contradancetx.com>*
>
> *www.zazzle.com/fuzzycozy* <http://www.zazzle.com/fuzzycozy*> (Dance
> buttons, t-shirts, & more)*
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 13:11:02 -0700
> From: Kalia Kliban <kalia.kliban at gmail.com>
> To: Caller's discussion list <callers at sharedweight.net>
> Subject: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word
> Message-ID: <4e6333c7-b36e-a5c7-1d6f-b7ec1c813ac9 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I appreciate the point that several have made that a term that sounds
> just like gypsy isn't a reasonable substitute. Fair enough. The search
> continues...
>
> Kalia in Sebastopol
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Callers Digest, Vol 47, Issue 8
> **************************************
>
--
In dwelling, live close to the ground.
In thinking, keep to the simple.
In conflict, be fair and generous.
In governing, don't try to control.
In work, do what you enjoy.
In family life, be completely present. -- Lao Tzu
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