[Callers] Ladies

Sun Oct 15 10:48:33 PDT 2017

Hi Angela, Looking forward to hearing about your personal experiences as a
caller and dance organizer with these new terms.

On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Mary Collins via Callers <
callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Angela, ah....I see said the blind person. Now it makes sense. Will not
> work in my home ultra conservative community and I will certainly need to
> practice replacing. It will be interesting to say the least.
> Thanks again!
>
> On Oct 15, 2017 12:21 AM, "Angela DeCarlis" <aedecarlis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Mary! A lot has already been written on the subject elsewhere, but the
>> summary of why Larks and Ravens has become a great set of terms is that
>> they correlate to the (L)eft and (R)ight positions at the end of a swing.
>> The syllable count is the same when compared to Gent and Lady (or Man and
>> Woman, for that matter), and the terms don't conflict with any dance
>> instructions (like how Lead and Follow would, especially if used to call
>> for English or Square Dancing).
>>
>> Another great set of terms are Jets and Rubies, but I've found those
>> labels to be more arbitrary...the main advantage is that the words are
>> phonetically similar to Gents and Ladies...and I'm not sure whether or not
>> that's a good thing!
>>
>> I hope this helps clarify things for you, and I thank you in advance for
>> keeping an open mind about trying these new, genderfree terms soon! In the
>> communities I've danced in, I can't tell you how much of a positive
>> difference these terms have made for individual dancers and for the
>> communities on the balance. But again, more on that can be read elsewhere,
>> and I hope to write in with more about my personal experiences as a caller
>> and dance organizer soon!
>>
>> Angela
>>
>> On Oct 14, 2017 2:09 PM, "Mary Collins" <nativedae at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem Tom...that would be "gender" lol....Seriously, being of the more
>>> mature (and I use that term loosely) set, I find all these new names for
>>> ROLES to be troublesome and tiresome.  Who exactly is a Lark & who exactly
>>> are Ravens?  Because quite frankly I have mental pictures of both....from
>>> literature and music and they could be as offending as gents & ladies or
>>> women & men....not to try to start anything here.  I am just trying to
>>> grasp something that seems to be just a wee bit beyond my reach.  Several
>>> of my fellow traveling dance friends (of similar age) do not understand
>>> these terms either.  Since I plan to be traveling and hopefully calling in
>>> "your community" sometime, I'd really like to get a handle on this.
>>>
>>> Mary "24" Collins
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free.
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>>>
>>> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about
>>> learning to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Tom Hinds <twhinds at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Angela.  If only we could easily change our gender so we could
>>>> understand what it's like to be the other sex.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Angela DeCarlis wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tom, I had this conversation with Sue Rosen this summer. Women who
>>>> belong to the original Feminist generation (like Sue and, presumably, like
>>>> Mary and Martha above) were involved in a cultural movement to abolish the
>>>> word "Lady", along with its restrictive connotations, in favor of "Woman".
>>>> The latter label, I understand, was one which lent more power and ownership
>>>> to its wearers, and so was preferable. You could be however you were,
>>>> "ladylike" or not, and still be a Woman. (others, please chime in if I've
>>>> gotten anything wrong or missed anything!)
>>>>
>>>> My generation has an opposite problem: due to the modern-day Gender
>>>> Revolution, wherein we seek to abolish the gender dichotomy, terms like
>>>> "Woman" and "Man" feel too restrictive and denotative. "Lady" and "Gent"
>>>> feel almost more comfortable to some, since they are words that are
>>>> slightly more flexible, in some ways.
>>>>
>>>> One of the biggest problems for both groups, I think, is when the terms
>>>> are used interchangeably.
>>>>
>>>> This is one of my favorite things to think about when it comes to role
>>>> terms in dance today! I *love* our community's intergenerationality, and
>>>> learning about each other through conversations like this!
>>>>
>>>> Eventually I hope to get around to writing in about the changes I've
>>>> seen at BIDA since switching to Larks and Ravens at the beginning of the
>>>> summer. It's been truly remarkable!
>>>>
>>>> 'Til then,
>>>> Angela
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2017 9:26 AM, "Mary Collins via Callers" <
>>>> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Martha, I dont recall this dance of which you speak. Could you share
>>>>> the true title and calls? Thanks! I also cringe over ladies (I don't fit
>>>>> that tradition) yet it is a good "place holder, ROLE identifer" for my
>>>>> communities.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 14, 2017 9:06 AM, "Tom Hinds via Callers" <
>>>>> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I must have fallen asleep during a discussion of "ladies".  What's
>>>>>> the issue?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
>>>>>> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I’ve got a gypsy star dance (I actually call it “Star Wrong” and
>>>>>> not just because of the g-word, but because if you say “gypsy star”
>>>>>> everybody starts to gypsy and NOT star, so I gave up on that confusing
>>>>>> terminology). Haven’t seen another dance like it. The move from mad robin
>>>>>> into the star wrong actually flows quite well.  I use men and women for
>>>>>> roles, not genders. When I first started calling, we considered “lady” to
>>>>>> be a four letter word - women’s movement and bra burning and all that. I
>>>>>> still find it hard to use the word “lady” and not bristle. Times have
>>>>>> changed, now people bristle at men and women. Go figure. I didn’t correct
>>>>>> the “g-word” use on this version
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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