[Callers] That g word

Ron Blechner via Callers callers at lists.sharedweight.net
Fri Jan 22 09:04:41 PST 2016


It also means that I refrain from the following word uses:

"Gay" meaning happy.
"Cock" meaning rooster.
"Pussy" meaning cat.
"Douche" meaning to shower.

This, as an aside, was a funny email to write. Apologies for any offended,
but I use slang/swear words to make a serious point, and we're all mature
here. I hope.

Ron
On Jan 22, 2016 12:01 PM, "Ron Blechner" <contraron at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sargon,
>
> You and I don't get to decide what millions of people think a word means.
> it's the nature of language. Logic often has no bearing on it.
>
> In the same way "negro" is derived from Latin for "black", and aptly may
> describe a color, it's still inappropriate and offensive in most human
> contexts nowadays.
>
> When a word stereotypes a group of people, the only ones who get to decide
> the proper use of that word is... that group of people.
>
> ...
>
> As for contra communities, until there's more groundswell of support for
> changing "gypsy", it's an uphill battle. I think perhaps the smart thing
> for those of us concerned with not using the word is to educate. At the
> same time, I fully respect callers choosing to use their own replacements.
>
> Ron Blechner
> On Jan 22, 2016 11:50 AM, <sargondj at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I disagree. If it is fair to condemn a word despite widespread ignorance
>> of its racist etymology (such as the very real problem with the verb
>> "gyp"), then the inverse must be true: it is fair to exonerate a word
>> despite widespread ignorance of its non-racist etymology (e.g., niggardly).
>> That a word falsely gets attributed to a category in which it doesn't
>> belong is irrelevant. If two separate meanings/derivations converge to an
>> identically spelled modern word, I don't believe the innocent word (when
>> used in its original context) deserves to be written off. Let us truly
>> abide by what you claim to support: its current use *is* relevant.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 21, 2016, at 13:25, Ron Blechner via Callers <
>> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Martha,
>>
>> Regardless of whether it was derived from Welsh hundreds of years ago,
>> would you say more than 0.1% of dancers know that? Or, do you think 99.9%+
>> of dancers associate "gypsy" the dance move with the slang for wandering
>> people?
>>
>> Regardless of its origin, its current use is relevant.
>>
>> Ron
>> On Jan 21, 2016 12:15 PM, "Martha Wild via Callers" <
>> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> As mentioned, there are many words we use that are even considered
>>> impolite but only depending on context. The nickname for Richard, for
>>> example. Lots of men proudly use that as their name, but it’s also a really
>>> offensive term. The name Randy has other contexts, yet we use it without
>>> any problem in the context of someone with that as their name. (Note the
>>> use of the plural for the generic singular pronoun, which I’ve done for
>>> years, unhappy with he/him for that term and that just sort of started
>>> happening). If our word actually came down from Welsh, and has no
>>> relationship to the Romani whatsoever, then it would seem even more reason
>>> to recognize that it is context dependent and completely divorced from the
>>> pejorative use of the unfortunately similar word in other countries.
>>> Martha
>>>
>>> On Jan 21, 2016, at 5:56 AM, Janet Bertog via Callers <
>>> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have contacted Carol and have begun a discussion.  I still have
>>> several unanswered questions but one thing I did learn is that the Romani
>>> have claimed the word and deemed it offensive and feel it should not be
>>> used, in any context, in any language.  More about why she herself uses the
>>> word later. One thing I asked her was about her insistence on the use of a
>>> capital G.  To me, this would indicate that Gypsy would refer to the
>>> ethnicity, while gypsy would have a possibly completely different meaning.
>>>
>>> We know that gipsy/gip was being used in country dances at least in 1909
>>> when Cecil Sharp wrote them down.  Two of the three dances in the 1909 book
>>> originated in the 1500s, one ECD and one Morris Dance from Scotland.  We do
>>> not know if they originally used the terms gip/gipsy in the 1500s, but we
>>> do know that gip, at least, has another meaning in Welsh (a celtic
>>> language) - gaze or glance.
>>>
>>> So, my conversation with Carol is ongoing, and unresolved.  But if you
>>> feel that a group can claim a word and then claim that it is a slur, there
>>> are a lot of other words you should stop using as well.
>>>
>>> Janet
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 3:00 AM, Erik Hoffman via Callers <
>>> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's in a word? As this list points out, it gets confusing.
>>>>
>>>> Like Martha, I stopped using "Ladies," and "Gents," or "Gentlemen,"
>>>> because they are words steeped in class-ism. And after years of being told
>>>> we live in a classless society, the lie of that became clear.
>>>>
>>>> But, more recently I was approached by a man who felt "Ladies," and
>>>> "Gents" were roles anyone could play whereas "Men" and "Women" really did
>>>> refer to what was between our legs, and made it more uncomfortable to
>>>> switch roles. Also, even though we live in a severely class society, the
>>>> words "Ladies" and "Gents" don't seem to carry that weight any more.
>>>>
>>>> Then again, in Berkeley we've switched to "gender free," and use
>>>> "Ravens" and "Larks" now.
>>>>
>>>> This is all to say, those who come to the dance have many differing
>>>> associations with words. And sometimes it is important that we listen.
>>>>
>>>> Take "He" and "She." We all know that "He" has been the generic pronoun
>>>> where "She" refers only to women. Since we live in a society dominated by
>>>> the patriarchal Christian religion, it's clear that using "He" and "Him"
>>>> generically supports this concept. Many of us, in the sixties and seventies
>>>> counteracted this male dominance by using "She" and "Her" as the generic
>>>> pronoun. It was startling how different it feels to switch to those. There
>>>> are now corners pushing to just use "They" and "Them" for everyone, like we
>>>> use "you" for both plural and singular. Maybe it will take hold...
>>>>
>>>> But all this is to say, these little words do have an affect on how we
>>>> think about things.
>>>>
>>>> So now we are thinking about "gypsy." Or, better with capitalization,
>>>> "Gypsy." Is it derogatory?  To some, not all. Is that reason enough to
>>>> change? Perhaps for some. I've started using "Right Shoulder Turn," and
>>>> "Left Shoulder Turn." It doesn't slide off the tongue, an isn't as
>>>> colorful, but it is more descriptive. At Contra Carnivale, Susan Michaels
>>>> said someone had come up with "Roma-around," or "Romaround.."
>>>>
>>>> So we're all dealing with it, and considering this as:
>>>>
>>>> Some of us are attached to our words, and don't want to loose it. Some
>>>> of us are vociferous about keeping it. And some of us are searching for a
>>>> substitute that might work better. Seems about right.
>>>>
>>>> Mostly, I want to suggest, as we struggle with this, consider how our
>>>> language and word choice does affect others, whether we mean it to or not.
>>>> As callers, we are in the public eye--granted a small pond of the
>>>> public--but our words do go out there and cause others to think, too.
>>>>
>>>> What's in a word? A lot.
>>>>
>>>> ~erik hoffman
>>>>     oakland, ca
>>>>
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