[Callers] Problem dancers / Crying Wolf

Wed Sep 9 13:48:43 PDT 2015

Well, I don't want to fan the flames in this normally cordial and helpful
community.
However, I'm here, and seeing what I'm seeing, and asking for perspective.

--------------------
Lindsay Morris
CEO, TSMworks
Tel. 1-859-539-9900
lindsay at tsmworks.com

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers <
callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Harassment is real. It's widespread, and pretending it isn't hurts people
> and keeps people away from our dances.
>
> Things I have personally witnessed, and when subsequently asked the dancer
> whether anything was unusual, they confirmed:
>
> One dancer has a habit of grabbing hip *just* at the butt-line. One of the
> young women was 15.
>
> Another dancer intentionally threw a quarter on the ground in front of a
> young 20-something lady. I watched in horror as she bent over and picked it
> up as he leered.
>
> One dancer did a frontways dip to a 20-something lady which included
> torso-torso frontal contact. No permission was asked.
>
> Another dancer came in drunk / high and was dancing wild.
>
> Another dancer has a habit of intentionally shoulder-checked men who have
> called him out on his creepiness.
>
> Another dancer was swinging way too close. Turns out he was following a
> minor around and asking completely inappropriate questions.
>
> And I have more of these stories. Seriously, the list goes on and on.
>
> I've been dancing far fewer years than many on this list, and danced at
> many different dances - this isn't limited to one dance community. And
> these are just the stories I've verified.
> So are all of your eyes closed?
>
> So... Yeah. I absolutely think that we should keep our eyes open. I think
> we should calmly and privately inquire when we think we see inappropriate
> behavior. We should be absolutely receptive that sometimes behavior is seen
> and a victim is too afraid to step forward on their own.
>
> And we should stop with such flippant and potentially dangerous phrases
> like "crying wolf" or that people need to just grow up and "act like an
> adult" because bad stuff happens.
> On Sep 9, 2015 4:04 PM, "Martha Wild via Callers" <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, we had a guy at one dance complain bitterly that other men were
>> being creepy with his girlfriend. But when I spoke with her, she said there
>> was no problem, they'd done no more than gypsy and swing her and
>> occasionally speak to her with advice on the dance. The more I spoke with
>> the two of them the more I wanted to yell at the woman - run fast, very
>> fast, as far away from this control freak as you can!!!! But I suppose it
>> was not my place to warn her right in front of him. No surprise they never
>> returned.
>>
>> Martha
>>
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2015, at 7:39 AM, Lindsay Morris via Callers wrote:
>>
>> Appreciate that.  Don't think the "where there's smoke there's fire"
>> issue applies here, though.  It would if there were several *different*
>> women complaining about one man...
>>
>> --------------------
>> Lindsay Morris
>> CEO, TSMworks
>> Tel. 1-859-539-9900
>> lindsay at tsmworks.com
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Ron Blechner <contraron at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Lindsay,
>>>
>>> I realize this is a tricky topic, so apologies in advance if my brevity
>>> comes off as bruskness.
>>>
>>> These two suggestions work for Amherst Contra.
>>>
>>> As a proxy complaint comes in, a board member would seek out the source.
>>> Anonymous complaints are permitted, and a high level of ensuring that we
>>> ask open-ended questions, and not leading questions.
>>>
>>> We also wear board member buttons at dances and make regular
>>> announcements about us being available for any reason. Usually 4-7 members
>>> of our board attend any dance.
>>>
>>> You might speak privately to Will Loving, our lead organizer, if you're
>>> interested in more specifics.
>>>
>>> I would also caution about making such definitive statements as "just an
>>> accusation". In my experience, where there's smoke, there's fire. For every
>>> accusation, there's five people who are too uncomfortable to speak up.
>>>
>>> That said, I have seen the success of proactive addressing of issues.
>>> The biggest benefit is simple:
>>>
>>> Address it early when it's small, and not a huge deal. Maybe it's a
>>> simple misunderstanding. Maybe the person needed a clear boundary drawn.
>>> But wait until there's a pile of complaints, and you've already lost
>>> dancers and the resolution will need to be more severe for the offender.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Ron Blechner
>>> On Sep 9, 2015 10:08 AM, "Lindsay Morris via Callers" <
>>> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chris Weiler's Positive Solutions
>>>> <http://www.puttinonthedance.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Positive-Solutions-Chris.pdf>
>>>> on dealing with problem dancers, and the CDU Policy
>>>> <http://www.puttinonthedance.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/09-12-16-CDU-policy-on-inappropriate-behavior.pdf>
>>>> are thoughtful and useful documents.
>>>>
>>>> We have a different problem here.
>>>>
>>>> One woman often complains to board members about men she sees as
>>>> creepers or sexual predators. She reports their misbehavior on behalf of
>>>> their victims. The victims don't initiate these reports.*
>>>>
>>>> Many others *don't* see these men as creepy or inappropriate.
>>>> Recently one of the "victims" clarified that her discomfort with the man
>>>> was a year ago and she'd long ago dealt with it to her satisfaction.  The
>>>> man in question had heard only rumors that some nameless woman was unhappy
>>>> about some nameless thing he'd done.
>>>>
>>>> This woman also publicly asked that young women who feel harassed
>>>> should talk to her about it.  We feel that's the Board's job, not hers.
>>>>
>>>> It seems that this woman is fishing for - or even inventing -
>>>> "naughty-dancer" problems.
>>>>
>>>> When a married man gets accused of being a sexual predator, his wife
>>>> has to wonder if it's true. This adds to any marital tensions they may
>>>> already have.  So, while this woman is not actually punching anybody in the
>>>> face, it seems to me that she's committing violence.
>>>>
>>>> How should we handle this?
>>>>
>>>>    - I think we need a "No proxy complaints" policy - i.e., the victim
>>>>    has to speak up (and then our process will usually fix simple
>>>>    miscommunication issues).
>>>>    - We need to clearly identify board members, so genuine victims
>>>>    know who to talk to.
>>>>
>>>> But does anybody have other ideas about preventing one person's issues
>>>> from  poisoning the atmosphere of a mostly friendly dance?
>>>>
>>>> ____
>>>> * I know, victims often have a hard time stepping up and complaining,
>>>> so advocacy may be a good thing.  But that's a different discussion.  In
>>>> these situations, there's no victim; there's no predator; there's just an
>>>> accusation with little to back it up.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Callers mailing list
>>>> Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
>>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>>>
>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20150909/307eca93/attachment.htm>