[Callers] Fw: Shadow Swing Disclaimers?

Tue Sep 8 11:53:51 PDT 2015

Mr. Fuerst, I again think your attempt to inject levity into a conversation
have come across as crass and inappropriate.

Asking about shadow swings on a list for calling is pertinent; joking about
men groping women dancers isn't.

On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers <
callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Asking about how to appropriately do dances with shadow swings seems like
> asking how men can appropriately grope women during a dance.
>
> Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801      217 239 5844
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:41 PM, Michael Fuerst <
> mjerryfuerst at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> One can also be miffed at having to repeatedly  swing a shadow who one
> finds very pleasant as a person, but just awkward to swing with (too tall,
> too short, distributes his/her weight during a swing in a way that strains
> some part of you).
>
> Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801      217 239 5844
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:30 PM, Mac Mckeever via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>
> I agree with Michael - I can't see any reason I would want to call a dance
> with a shadow swing.  If the rest of the dance is that good - modify it to
> get rid of that swing.
>
> Chances are you are going to make at least one dancer very uncomfortable.
> I avoid any figures that introduce that risk (not a big fan of men's chains
> either).
>
> There are lots of great dances out there - so I don't see a need to
> knowingly offend dancers with the few dances that contain risky figures.
> Warning them ahead of time creates a very awkward situation on  the floor
> and someone is going to lose.
>
> Mac McKeever
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> *From:* Perry Shafran via Callers <callers at lists.sharedweight.net>
> *To:* "callers at lists.sharedweight.net" <callers at lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 8, 2015 1:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Shadow Swing Disclaimers?
>
> I'm going to go with Andrea's well-written note on this.  I understand
> that the goal is to prevent people from dancing with people who really make
> them uncomfortable (i.e. creepers).  However, if you suggest "if you need
> to make changes, do so now", that will open up the potential for people to
> refuse a shadow for ANY reason (they smell, they're too fat, they're too
> old, they're not my BFF, they're the same gender, they're a beginner,
> whatever), and that could cause a whole world of hurt - especially in a
> community where we welcome all and celebrate differences in people.  There
> is no graceful way to do this, really, that I can think of.
>
> For the most part, if there is someone that a person does not want to
> encounter in a dance, much less be a shadow, that person will find a
> different line to dance in.  At least that has been my experience.  Callers
> should not be encouraging people to find someone "better" than the potluck
> shadow that they got.  I would suggest not calling a dance with a shadow
> swing - that would ward off potential problems with shadows people don't
> want to swing and also prevent the hurt that would come with suggesting
> people make changes for whatever reason.
>
> Perry
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Maia McCormick via Callers <callers at lists.sharedweight.net>
> *To:* "callers at lists.sharedweight.net" <callers at lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 8, 2015 11:06 AM
> *Subject:* [Callers] Shadow Swing Disclaimers?
>
> Hey all,
>
> First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are
> problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the
> conversation I want to have in this thread; *I ask that you respond to
> the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this
> particular thread. *This should help keep this thread on track and
> hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv.
> Thanks!
>
> Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
>
> There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love
> to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an
> uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the
> potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning
> of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this
> will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so
> now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the
> idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move
> (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this
> method? Suggestions of others?
>
> Cheers.
> Maia
>
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-- 
Luke Donforth
Luke.Donforth at gmail.com <Luke.Donev at gmail.com>
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