[Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Mon Jun 1 23:30:21 PDT 2015

Michael,
Partners neighbors and shadows have not changed.  Corners as accurately designates which two dancers must allemande as any other designation, with the bonus that they don't even have to be the same role.  You could put the N you intend to swing on the diagonal by making the dance proper, but first corner is still those who could step straight fwd from long lines  and have near hands be R.  
Andrea

Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask

> On Jun 1, 2015, at 6:55 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers <callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> 
> How can one simply, consistently  and clearly designate two persons to participate in an allemande ?
>  
> Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801      217 239 5844
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, June 1, 2015 5:41 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers <callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> RE: Dave:
> 
> Clockwise / counterclockwise - too wordy, and some people have trouble
> with this regardless.
> 
> Hey: What about on the left diagonal? Along the set?
> 
> I also really don't like the blaming of the dance if it's not 100%
> intuitive. Plenty of dances flow great but have a counter-intuitive
> element. Restricting dances to those without counter-intuitive moves
> is basically saying, "Sorry, if we want to be genderfree, we need to
> put a cap on how difficult a dance is. Sorry genderfree dancers, you
> aren't allowed to dance too advanced."  That's a big problem.
> 
> Rollaways can *not* be handled from left to right - who does the
> rolling is not indicated at all!
> 
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Dave Casserly
> <david.j.casserly at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Also with regard to Ron's questions, numbers 2 and 3 (who-leads-whom and
> > who-walks-forward) can be handled by using the terms "clockwise" and
> > "counterclockwise."  As to 4 (who passes whom for a hey), I agree with Bob
> > that if the dance is good, it should be obvious, but even if not, "pass left
> > shoulders in the middle for a hey for four" can only be interpreted one way,
> > so that fixes the issue of referring to roles.  Roll-aways can be handled
> > with "roll away from the left to the right" or "roll away from the right to
> > the left."
> >
> > I'm not saying that it's perfect, but it is actually quite doable to call a
> > dance without referring to roles at all, even without resorting to first or
> > second corners.
> >
> > Perry asked for an example of a dance with global terminology used.  Here's
> > one (just picking a common, typical dance):
> >
> > Square Affair, by Becky Hill
> >
> > A1 Long Lines, 1st corners chain (or just say "chain" if you're dealing with
> > experienced dancers and don't want to use the corners terminology)
> > A2 Balance and pull by partner, pull by neighbor, balance and pull by
> > partner, pull by neighbor
> > B1 New neighbors balance and swing
> > B2 Circle 3/4, partner swing
> >
> > Perry, you also mentioned that you are trying to figure out how global
> > terminology would work for proper dances.  I have always called proper
> > dances using global terminology without even thinking about it.  For Chorus
> > Jig, for instance, why would you ever need to use the term "gent" or "lady"?
> > Down the outside, back, down the middle, back and neighbor around-the-waist
> > turn, 1s turn contra corners, 1s balance and swing.  Nothing that any
> > particular role does that the other role isn't doing at the same time.
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Bob Morgan via Callers
> > <callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> With regard to Ron's questions
> >>
> >> 1. Would be easily covered by 1st or 2nd corners walk forward to a wave
> >>
> >> 2. Again can be done with reference to corners
> >>
> >> 3. Not so familiar with these.
> >>
> >> 4. You usually only need an obvious first pass person so not an issue I
> >> think
> >>
> >> 5.  If you're facing out you turn, if you're facing across you walk is how
> >> I call it anyway
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers
> >> <callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Andrea, how would you handle the following:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip to
> >>> Lambertville, et all?
> >>>
> >>> 2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star?
> >>>
> >>> 3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal Pushers,
> >>> Jurassic Redheads, etc.
> >>>
> >>> 4. Indication of who is passing while calling a hey.
> >>>
> >>> 5. Indication of who crosses, who turns in a box circulate?
> >>>
> >>> 6. Indication any other role/position specific move that I haven't
> >>> mentioned? Turn over right shoulder, as in Fairport Harbour? Rollaways?
> >>>
> >>> None of these fall under the "most unusual figures" as you stated.
> >>>
> >>> Ron
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 1, 2015 11:59 AM, "Andrea Nettleton via Callers"
> >>> <callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at
> >>>> Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use of
> >>>> global terminology for gender free contra.  I would contend that if used,
> >>>> everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances.  Only the most
> >>>> unusual figures/sequences would be unable to be called.  The addition of
> >>>> first and second corner positions to the arsenal makes it possible for same
> >>>> role dancers to also be called upon to dance together without reference to
> >>>> gender.  Second corners chain, or first corners allemande L 1 1/2 for
> >>>> example.  It would have to be agreed that this refers to those standing in
> >>>> those positions at that moment.  In ECD we use first and second corners to
> >>>> refer to the people, first and second diagonals for the positions.  But
> >>>> since we use diagonal to refer to those across and over one set, this seems
> >>>> unhelpful.  Simply corner positions works better.  I'm glad some folks are
> >>>> trying it out at last.  I had hoped for an opportunity myself before now.
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Andrea
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jun 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers
> >>>> <callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment in
> >>>> gender free calling.  Last night I called the contra dance in St. Louis
> >>>> using gender free calling without telling anyone.    The experiment was a
> >>>> great success.  I received lots of  positive feedback on the evenings dance.
> >>>> At the break and after the dance I made a point to ask several dancers, some
> >>>> were callers as well, if they noticed anything different or unusual about
> >>>> the dances or how I taught them.  One person noticed that there were more
> >>>> dances that included a swing in the center for couple 2 than usual.  No one
> >>>> I talked to noticed that the calls and teaching were gender free.
> >>>>
> >>>> It took some extra time to construct a fun, diverse 3 hour program, but
> >>>> it is certainly possible.  Re-labeling the dancers is not the only way to
> >>>> call gender free.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you are interested in the program I used or the larger collection of
> >>>> gender free dances I chose the program from, send me an email,
> >>>> arcadian35 at gmail.com.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Jim Hemphill
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Callers mailing list
> >>>> Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Callers mailing list
> >>>> Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Callers mailing list
> >>> Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Callers mailing list
> >> Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Casserly
> > (cell) 781 258-2761
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers at lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/attachments/20150602/6afbfde8/attachment.htm>